Hi

I need buy a new computer and I am consider buying the iMac Retina 5k with:
- Intel Core i7
- 16 Go de mémoire SDRAM DDR3 à 1 600 MHz - 2 x 8 Go
- AMD Radeon R9 M295X avec 4 Go de mémoire GDDR5

According to sidefx requirements it can run ok
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2680&Itemid=390 [sidefx.com]

But I was wondering if anyone can tell me of your experience with this machine
Is it ok or you recommend buying a Mac Pro instead ?

My main Houdini use will be for vfx, running simulations

thanks for help

I think that iMac will heat a lot, especially with heavy computations like simulations. Also I would go with 32 Gb for same reason, I do not think that 16gb is enough.

Screen is of course great.

Buy more ram, for sure, as much as you can fit in.

Because it is for sims I would think on a Mac Pro given you are going to literally push the machine to the limit. May be fun to test this though.

And please keeps us posted, I would love to have an all mac environment.

One thing to be aware of is that OSX has the weakest OpenGL support of all our supported platforms. Apple is working on it, but currently their drivers are not as fast, robust or as featured as drivers from Nvidia or AMD (and I can almost add Intel to that list). Just something to keep in mind when choosing a platform.

I haven't used the retina 5k imac, but I'd advise against it if you're going to be simulating or rendering on it.

A studio I worked at bought 27" imacs when they first came out, and the machines couldn't cope with the heat of running at full load for a significant amount of time. Issues ranged from the more dramatic, buckled superdrives and warping, to the more regular graphics card overheating issues and heat related reboots. Of course they may well have fixed all this by now (one hopes).

However I'd definitely echo Jordi's recommendation of a Mac Pro if you're going to be putting a lot of strain on the system. Also, just to add to the chorus, definitely get 32GB.

27 Inch iMacs are pretty robust these days. The only problem is that 27 Inch retina iMac uses an AMD card and Mac OS X don't have native AMD drivers. Apple drivers are not really good for Houdini. Having said that heat is not a big issue there. The drivers are. If you definitely want to go with a Mac platform I would recommend the non retina version that uses the Nvidia card, otherwise go with a workstation.

The frustrations with AMD + OS X + Houdini + OpenGL cannot be overstated, for now; especially for mobile graphics (which the iMacs have). twod has done a ton of work, but the deck is stacked against him/us. But if you want to stick with OS X, I'd hop over to the nearest Apple Store, and explain Houdini, and ask if they'll let you install and give it a run on an iMac and a Mac Pro. If it works well enough, you just have to pick one!

One other idea, if you have the funds, is to get a 27" iMac, and use it in Target Display Mode. This lets you hit a keyboard combo, and your iMac turns into a monitor for whatever is plugged into it's Mini DisplayPort or Thunderbolt port. The 5k ones can't do this, and you'll want to do some research to make sure you get a cable that works (google + apple store visit possibly), but I've used a setup like that, and it was awesome. 3d work on the Linux box, comp and painting on the Mac. The HP Z1 also has something similar to Target Display Mode (you can find used ones for far more reasonable prices than retail).

Target Display Mode information: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT3924 [support.apple.com]

Thank you all for your answers
You give me a lot to think

I take note of your advice for a 32GB of RAM
Apple used to charge a lot for RAM so I was thinking buying not from Apple, but elsewhere
But maybe this changed, I will check

Noted for the drives
Windows is absolute no for me, I might consider Linux then
But I like the ready/easy to use OS X

Good idea to go to a Apple Store and ask for installing Houdini, I will try
I am thinking running a very high resolution fluid scene
But maybe you have a typical test scene I can get to stress the machine?

I like the idea of using the iMac as TDM, but this 5k model don’t do that as you say
Maybe I wait for the next generation and buy just a Linux box for now, that I will plug later on the 5k
of course this is more expensive but maybe this help me scale up later and spread the budget
And you are giving me an other idea : I can use a screen sharing to control the linux box via the iMac no?
Like VNC?
Would not be as nice as the TDM but still a good option

About the Mac Pro:
will Houdini take advantage of the 4 cores and the two graphic processors?
or the drivers are not managing that either?
Would you suggest 6GB of memory for the graphic card?

thanks all for your help!

27 Inch iMacs are pretty robust these days. The only problem is that 27 Inch retina iMac uses an AMD card and Mac OS X don't have native AMD drivers. Apple drivers are not really good for Houdini. Having said that heat is not a big issue there. The drivers are. If you definitely want to go with a Mac platform I would recommend the non retina version that uses the Nvidia card, otherwise go with a workstation.

LOL whut? You are beyond misinformed. AMD writes their drivers for OS X, just like Nvidia does. They're built into the OS and released with point updates of the OS. The reason Nvidia releases their own separate drivers is because they have third party products for Mac.

davegirard

27 Inch iMacs are pretty robust these days. The only problem is that 27 Inch retina iMac uses an AMD card and Mac OS X don't have native AMD drivers. Apple drivers are not really good for Houdini. Having said that heat is not a big issue there. The drivers are. If you definitely want to go with a Mac platform I would recommend the non retina version that uses the Nvidia card, otherwise go with a workstation.

LOL whut? You are beyond misinformed. AMD writes their drivers for OS X, just like Nvidia does. They're built into the OS and released with point updates of the OS. The reason Nvidia releases their own separate drivers is because they have third party products for Mac.

I think what he's saying is that Apple writes their own OpenGL implementation, which interfaces with the driver backend produced by individual vendors. It's Apple's GL implementation which is buggy when compared with the OpenGL implementations written by Nvidia and AMD.

davegirard
LOL whut? You are beyond misinformed. AMD writes their drivers for OS X, just like Nvidia does. They're built into the OS and released with point updates of the OS. The reason Nvidia releases their own separate drivers is because they have third party products for Mac.

if only we could the attention of cgbeige whom wrote before they had a contact whom is the head of AMD Mac driver team, we could set this all straight

https://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=172&page=viewtopic&p=130710#130710 [sidefx.com]

twod

davegirard

27 Inch iMacs are pretty robust these days. The only problem is that 27 Inch retina iMac uses an AMD card and Mac OS X don't have native AMD drivers. Apple drivers are not really good for Houdini. Having said that heat is not a big issue there. The drivers are. If you definitely want to go with a Mac platform I would recommend the non retina version that uses the Nvidia card, otherwise go with a workstation.

LOL whut? You are beyond misinformed. AMD writes their drivers for OS X, just like Nvidia does. They're built into the OS and released with point updates of the OS. The reason Nvidia releases their own separate drivers is because they have third party products for Mac.

I think what he's saying is that Apple writes their own OpenGL implementation, which interfaces with the driver backend produced by individual vendors. It's Apple's GL implementation which is buggy when compared with the OpenGL implementations written by Nvidia and AMD.

Thanks Twod, that's what I meant. This is a big issue for me also. I wanted to get a retina iMac for myself also but this issue holds me back. I am still learning Houdini and I am using it on my Macbook Pro retina with Nvidia GPU.

imho best option for H is to go with a OEM PC with centos. with X99 chipset you can go 64GB ram which is a blessing if you want to go high res sims like you mentioned. and I think a laptop for me is always out of option as an fx td. I would rather remote login to my desktop at home than working on a laptop. Lastly, screen res is the last thing you should worry on FX, matte painting etc does help a lot at such res, but for FX it should be kept as a lower priority.

tricecold
. Lastly, screen res is the last thing you should worry on FX, matte painting etc does help a lot at such res, but for FX it should be kept as a lower priority.

hiDPI / retina display should be a prime consideration due to the clarity of the image. Any and all computer use is improved with a clearer image.

It is said once you use hiDPI you can't go back, other ‘normal screens’ look low-res and fuzzy.

MartybNz

tricecold
. Lastly, screen res is the last thing you should worry on FX, matte painting etc does help a lot at such res, but for FX it should be kept as a lower priority.

hiDPI / retina display should be a prime consideration due to the clarity of the image. Any and all computer use is improved with a clearer image.

It is said once you use hiDPI you can't go back, other ‘normal screens’ look low-res and fuzzy.

I will have to disagree on this. Maybe you misunderstood me, I meant screen resolution as an FX TD should be the last thing in your list. If you are a colorist, DMP etc then you are right. I beleive my images on my 1080P monitor are clear enough for me to work on my shots.

tricecold
Maybe you misunderstood me,.

Perhaps, but when the thread title is ‘Houdini on iMac Retina 5k’ I would think anything but a Mac is the last thing on their list

Btw, regarding high DPI support. I remember someone told that H14 will have proper UI scaling on Retina display. This is not happen for some reason. In high DPI mode, houdini renders huge UI elements!

Just my two cents, I have the last generation fully blown out i7 Imac and I am so mad at Apple for this machine. It has become mostly relegated to an edit/ color machine, with all my heavy lifting done by an HP 620 with K5200 and a K4000. The machines were not that different in price when you get an Imac fully loaded with a decent SSD.

Overheating, as someone mentioned, yes,during any heavy work the machine would heat up and the fan would run loud, and I am pretty sure that has cause a slight grayish cloud on the screen.

Apple Driver support, if it has a built in card where you cannot use the Nvidia driver, as in an Imac, do not make the same mistake I did. I have the 670 MX and driver failure happens all the time. After Effects does not even really understand that there is any real opengl card.

The great news is that you cannot fix anything, as you need to rely upon Apple to give you a better driver, and they are making watches.

Current State of OSX as a professional operating system - I think pretty much non existent. They completely effed samba up in their latest iteration so if you are on a network expect lots of problems.

Loyal Apple user since 1986 with an Apple IIe, I have always run Pc's side by side. When this thing dies it will be my last Apple based computer.

IMO OsX is performing the very best it has ever been, though other systems have skipped ahead of it.

On average Windows or Linux, on the same hardware, has the impression of being approx. ~38% more efficient to work with. OsX is fine for general computing but if you are heavy lifting anything.. holding down the option key and restarting into that other partition adds a lot of horsepower :twisted:

As of today, in H14.0.272 & OsX 10.10.2, the Nvidia Gtx 980 is running Houdini very well, whilst AMD 7950 is surprisingly better than the 980 for OpenCL tasks. Looking forward to OsX 10.10.3+ and relevant bug fixes in there.

I wouldn't trust a mac in a production environment to drive a 5k resolution display in open gl with houdini, especially with an AMD graphics chipset.

No way no how. Been burned too many times by that to the point where I've switched 100% to running HP Z workstations and Z book laptops.

I love my macbooks, etc, but they're relegated to photo work and general purpose computing these days.

Agreed on the 32GB of ram, that's a minimum

As some people mentioned above, with the release of more and more 3k and 4k displays, people are bumping into display issues with GUI's on many high end applications. Not counting the need for 4x more GPU power to push a resolution 4x larger than normal, the hassle currently isn't worth it.

I can imagine Derek Zoolander trying to use Houdini on a 24" 5k display.

“WHAT IS THIS? A VOP NETWORK FOR ANTS!???”