First of all I want to thank each and everyone for writing very interesting answers. Some of them are intriguing, some of them are very persuasive and some thought provoking. It seems to me like the word “concept art” is questioned alot. Putting an idea on canvas is both a technical and a creative task. It doesnt matter if you sculpt it in clay, build in 3D or paint it in 2D. The most important part is that you are presenting an idea to the lets say the Art Director. Concept is a vague word of the minds representational blocks poured onto canvas.

I really appreciate all the answers, as they do push me into thinking for myself. Should I listen to the crowds out there, or should I take the road of exploration and see where Houdini takes me.

Of course, as a student you want to choose what is best for you to work in, most comfortable,and most efficient. We have to take into account that the procedural system is an exceptional element. Creating muddy road, create a japanese worn down 15th century house, a intricate vehicle or a spaceship and being able to change or modify them quickly upon request. Ive seen this teaser on how to create a whole lake town in Houdini procedurally. I was stunned. What Im saying is that Houdini opens up so much more to the user, other than just VFX it seems to me. Im a student so I cant really eleborate on industry ideaology, but it seems to me that it is your own perception that counts here, because you will be the one who actually sits in the chair in front of the screen. What is in Maya modeling that cant be done in HOudini in equal time if you know both of them? How you achieve your set goal is up to you. Another thing that sort of bipped on my radar, is the technical learning curve in H. Im no stranger to this,nodal systems are very incoporated in our craft, and they are the building blocks of almost all serious software. There is a special way of thinking in HOudini I suppose, and I want to explore that, because during the summer I will be looking for work. Cheers everybody!!!

pbowmar
We recently had a VHUG here at Dneg where Jasmine Furby demonstrated a very cool concept piece she did in Houdini. She was able to visualize something unique and interesting using VDBs, particles and various other things but with “direct” artist control.

She happens to be an FX TD, so she knows Houdini well but used it outside “normal” industry expectations, to good effect!

Cheers,

Peter B

Thanks!!! Is there a videocast?

dedeks3000
Houdini is the perfect tool for prototyping (far better than maya or modo or anything else )

PS: Concept Art can be related to anything (not limited to illustrations)
Good learning

hey, thanks man!!! Hmmm, that sounds really reassuring.

If you guys have heard DIRECT MODELING HDA is out. Its ramping up the workflow with thousands of eons. Not to forget. It also presents Mesh instancing, something that is available in Modo, Max and Maya. This really speeds up and enchances the modeling process.

khosea
Thanks!!! Is there a videocast?

Sadly no, however Jasmine uploaded her file here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/226198360751/files/ [www.facebook.com]

Not sure if you need to join the group to get it? I don't use Facebook

khosea
What is in Maya modeling that cant be done in HOudini in equal time if you know both of them? How you achieve your set goal is up to you. Another thing that sort of bipped on my radar, is the technical learning curve in H. Im no stranger to this,nodal systems are very incoporated in our craft, and they are the building blocks of almost all serious software. There is a special way of thinking in HOudini I suppose, and I want to explore that, because during the summer I will be looking for work. Cheers everybody!!!

I've played with that Houdini ws Maya modeling question recently, here's visual conclusion [www.matkovic.com]. Full thread on odForce is here [forums.odforce.net]. I'm not a student, I'm switching from 10 years of Softimage. At least from that point of view, I think this is unhappy, somehow mad comparison between extremes. While Maya theoretically can go procedural, in practice that's unbelievable hard because of tons of exposed, not so relevant parameters (intermediate objects,separated transform-shape, whatever), while one still has to dig into jumble of nodes just to change resolution of some primitive if there's deformer alive on top. After all, Maya is only software on planet, where basic controls over operator (create, inspect, edit, reorder, disable, delete) are dispersed over several windows, and not even consistent. In short, no hope for competitive proceduralism in Maya as it is today.
On Houdini side, it was pretty much linear, comfortable experience to ‘take’ a nodal, indirect part of Houdini, after Softimage ICE experience. While with Houdini ‘direct’ modeling, I found another, unseen madness, tools changing behavior by own criteria (move tool that became tweak tool by own decision), ‘faked’ solutions like ‘surface distance’ proportional tool based on normals ( Ok that one is fixed in 16.5), and, and… at some point just decided to forget Houdini ‘direct’ part, for greater good.
So at the end day, for hard surface polygon modeling, choice is 3d Studio Max or Blender if Max is not possible. Not because groundbreaking possibilities of any of two - it's mainly because of good direct-indirect balance (tweaking ws modifiers) and predictable, consistent workflow, *without* too much of handles, radial menus, ctrl+shift+alt+space+…, glowing lines in viewports and such BS. For NurbS and more real output, these days, Autodesk Fusion 360 is king - has usable construction history (contrary to Rhino), has strong filleting-blending engine *and* subd style modeling presented by former T-spline plugin. Price is great, too.
Houdini (Indie) still stands for experiments and for what McNistor described as ‘alien patterns’, well I'm huge fan of them.
Anyway, if you're already in Houdini world, IMO requirement on your side is, I'd call it a ‘positive attitude toward basics of applied math in 3d apps, and programming’. You definitively don't need to be programmer or math wizard - but there should be something to keep the motivation. If you liked to play with abacus or Japanese multiplication method as a kid, that's good start. Otherwise I don't know…. Of course there's huge improvement in Houdini's direct modeling in short time between v13 and v16, however, ‘indirect’ part is a several times stronger.

The 3d world is a such bast world. the first person who use the word “procedural” was Ludwig Wittgenstein in the 20 century. but procedural is everything from the first time. When you show how to use Houdini … you can not teach less than you know. When the people say you must not learn Houdini they don't teach nothing.

chevita.
The 3d world is a such bast world. the first person who use the word “procedural” was Ludwig Wittgenstein in the 20 century. but procedural is everything from the first time. When you show how to use Houdini … you can not teach less than you know. When the people say you must not learn Houdini they don't teach nothing.

Thanks! It sounds pretty smart to me. Procedural, when you say that, I think something you can modify any way you want at any time. That sounds like an ideology for concept artists.

amm

khosea
What is in Maya modeling that cant be done in HOudini in equal time if you know both of them? How you achieve your set goal is up to you. Another thing that sort of bipped on my radar, is the technical learning curve in H. Im no stranger to this,nodal systems are very incoporated in our craft, and they are the building blocks of almost all serious software. There is a special way of thinking in HOudini I suppose, and I want to explore that, because during the summer I will be looking for work. Cheers everybody!!!

I've played with that Houdini ws Maya modeling question recently, here's visual conclusion [www.matkovic.com]. Full thread on odForce is here [forums.odforce.net]. I'm not a student, I'm switching from 10 years of Softimage. At least from that point of view, I think this is unhappy, somehow mad comparison between extremes. While Maya theoretically can go procedural, in practice that's unbelievable hard because of tons of exposed, not so relevant parameters (intermediate objects,separated transform-shape, whatever), while one still has to dig into jumble of nodes just to change resolution of some primitive if there's deformer alive on top. After all, Maya is only software on planet, where basic controls over operator (create, inspect, edit, reorder, disable, delete) are dispersed over several windows, and not even consistent. In short, no hope for competitive proceduralism in Maya as it is today.
On Houdini side, it was pretty much linear, comfortable experience to ‘take’ a nodal, indirect part of Houdini, after Softimage ICE experience. While with Houdini ‘direct’ modeling, I found another, unseen madness, tools changing behavior by own criteria (move tool that became tweak tool by own decision), ‘faked’ solutions like ‘surface distance’ proportional tool based on normals ( Ok that one is fixed in 16.5), and, and… at some point just decided to forget Houdini ‘direct’ part, for greater good.
So at the end day, for hard surface polygon modeling, choice is 3d Studio Max or Blender if Max is not possible. Not because groundbreaking possibilities of any of two - it's mainly because of good direct-indirect balance (tweaking ws modifiers) and predictable, consistent workflow, *without* too much of handles, radial menus, ctrl+shift+alt+space+…, glowing lines in viewports and such BS. For NurbS and more real output, these days, Autodesk Fusion 360 is king - has usable construction history (contrary to Rhino), has strong filleting-blending engine *and* subd style modeling presented by former T-spline plugin. Price is great, too.
Houdini (Indie) still stands for experiments and for what McNistor described as ‘alien patterns’, well I'm huge fan of them.
Anyway, if you're already in Houdini world, IMO requirement on your side is, I'd call it a ‘positive attitude toward basics of applied math in 3d apps, and programming’. You definitively don't need to be programmer or math wizard - but there should be something to keep the motivation. If you liked to play with abacus or Japanese multiplication method as a kid, that's good start. Otherwise I don't know…. Of course there's huge improvement in Houdini's direct modeling in short time between v13 and v16, however, ‘indirect’ part is a several times stronger.

That was a very sophisticated and a very interesting comparison reasoning and actually a pretty sound message. I have a hard time consuming everything because of my lack of knowledge, buut I put it in my memory, and whenever I come across some of it again in the future I learn. I like your examples, pretty cool technique of modifying curves and it did open my eye to some more advanced simulations in my brain. I think that I will try Houdini, and see where it takes me. The question at the end is, for example, what the studio I will be working at says. If you are a freelancer working from home, that is not a problem because you can use any tool to achieve the goal and do modeling in the app you prefer. But at a studio, I will have to adjust to what the company uses. Maya is very widespread as far as I know, but to ask them get Houdini for concepting, I dont know, I dont have that experience yet to say what will happen. Houdini is coming up according to many, and they, like you say, do increase the modeling comfortability, and that is a good thing. Im entangled in many choices, but I need to make one, very soon. (No I didnt play with japanese multiplication table, but my mom took me to cinema all the time. Japanese movies included.)

chevita.
The 3d world is a such bast world. the first person who use the word “procedural” was Ludwig Wittgenstein in the 20 century. but procedural is everything from the first time. When you show how to use Houdini … you can not teach less than you know. When the people say you must not learn Houdini they don't teach nothing.

on that note:
https://youtu.be/495nCzxM9PI [youtu.be]
Pretty good practical demonstration of the underlying principles. Also pretty depressing that this was over 50 years ago and he's working at a good pace by modern standards.

khosea
Maya is very widespread as far as I know, but to ask them get Houdini for concepting, I dont know, I dont have that experience yet to say what will happen. Houdini is coming up according to many, and they, like you say, do increase the modeling comfortability, and that is a good thing. Im entangled in many choices, but I need to make one, very soon. (No I didnt play with japanese multiplication table, but my mom took me to cinema all the time. Japanese movies included.)

Of course. By the way I believed, it is your future studio who's suggesting Houdini for concept art too, so you're asking how to utilize it. Anyway I think that Maya - as it is today - probably is not best reference for making a conclusions about proceduralism or non-destructive approach, how it can help in let's say everyday modeling work.

By some tradition in 3d apps, procedural approach fits better to ‘patterns’ repetitive details, things like city generators, trees, terrains, vegetation. So, closer to description of environment art.

In any case, once people are able to see the benefits, they'll find a way to utilize even ‘technical’ approach. While ago I was running a few small utilities based on Softimage ICE, always been impressed how ‘non-technical’ people (precisely, artists who were focused on result of tool, instead of dissecting the tool itself) were able to get more, perhaps it is something about distribution of (always limited) time. Also, as far as I'm able to figure out, frontmen of ‘Houdini doodles & Discussions’ thread on Modo forum, become Houdini users just a few years ago. You never know what future holds.

Greetings.
I personally am trying to use H16.5 as a tool for concept art. The only thing I am currently struggling with right now is the actual rendering phase of it all. It does not strike me as an intuitive workflow, but I think I am getting there (or am I just delusional? haha)

For anyone who says “Houdini is not for this/that” - remember Steve Balmer? He infamously laughed at iPhone, dismissing it as garbage.

Houdini makes it super easy to create the sci-fi corridors, where you can by hand get the underlying point in a curve and change the whole structure (be it floors, or ceilings, or walls of the corridor) in 2 seconds. Everything will update and not break, and it will take you 2 seconds.
Or say you are more into Krakens, you are lucky again, since you can create tentacles with ease (theres youtube tutorial on that so to speak) and control the ‘fatness’ of the tentacle in question with a simple ramp.
Remember that ‘cable chamber’ in latest ghost in the shell movie (was also featured in the trailer)? Yeah, distribute some curves from an object, do the ‘Polywire’ node = there you go.
Heck, yesterday just for fun I loaded up the Squab test geo. Then I created a grid, 80x80 rows/columns. Copied a bunch of Lines onto the grid, then I projected them onto the Squab, and polywired those. It looked like a fusion of a spaceship and some naval ship from 1st world war. I could absolutely change how it looks by changing line lenght or tweaking one parameter in the Ray node.
For idea generation it is super tool. Wanna make a bridge to a castle longer? You can. Need a couple of thousand rocks more distributed along a road? Easy. Wanna sculpt an elven girl riding a giant tiger? 3D Coat or zBrush it is. But wanna have her ride it in a jungle/city/spaceship and render stuff out, also making everything explode? Yea, you get the point.

I have been using houdini for not so long personally, and it can do a lot of things. It can't do it ALL, but it's almost scary to see the pace SideFX is improving H.


PS - I mainly use it for geometry workflows right now. Still learning. The more I discover, the more I am convinced I made the right choice to make H my app of choice.
Also, have not seen such responsive and genuinely caring dev team before, not in this area.

Greetings glitchgami

It sounds like Houdini it is. Im getting the Indie version this coming week and Im very excited as an artist, because this is truly and artists tool.

I love the fact that it molds technicality, nodes, grooming, VFX, modeling, and lots of other stuff into one package that gives you so much. Hopefully I will be up and running pretty soon, because I have an interview with Goodbye Kansas this summer. I have lots of cool stuff I want to do, and modeling is one of them.

Im also looking for good, interesting training videos. Any suggestions? For a beginner of course, just to get a good insight into the Tools. I downloaded the GDC pdf, will be looking into it as well.

Werner Ziemerink
Development cycle from SideFX is insane. We took the leap during H14 and never looked back. Best choice we ever made.

Modeling organic or hard surface geo is absolutely possible and powerful. The first month will be different, but after that you will be happy. Make sure to use and set up your own radial menus, and you will be well on your way.

This is really good news. Yes, did hear about the radial menus, and Im so excited about modeling in HOudini. Thank you so much for the kind Words. I will be spending alot of quality time with it. (getting the indie version next week.) Thanks again.

pbowmar

khosea
Thanks!!! Is there a videocast?

Sadly no, however Jasmine uploaded her file here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/226198360751/files/ [www.facebook.com]

Not sure if you need to join the group to get it? I don't use Facebook

thanks alot. I joined, we´ll see if I can take a look at it.

Hi people!

Houdini for concept art= yes.
Concept ART it serve if you do not know for show to the whole team or someone else what sensation want create.
Concept ART is part of creative proces it serve to make the creative proces more understaneable.
All houdini people should learn how make concept ART. Who learn conceptual ART learn photography And how light should be, learn about colors about time And to much.How show the thing in diferent way. (this point is hard to explaind, not fall into this idea: the some thing are allway the same.) Its just curl noise! But you turned into something powerfull.
In that way your way i see it diferent,Make me feel that sensation again
Be amazed

GoetzingerC

fuos
@old_school sorry Houdini is discussed exactly like this in the Vfx industry. It is dismissed with one line such as ‘you don’t model with Houdini'.

Unfortunately the world is full of sheep that blindly follow what a bunch of other people say.

Modeling in Houdini may still not be quite as fast as some other packages, but it's very solid now. And all the additional procedural power it gives you under the hood comes in handy every now and then even when doing pure viewport modeling.

Concluding that “you don't model with Houdini” is ignorant and silly. Maybe this was true 5 years ago, and maybe bigger studios will always stick to their 25-different-specialized-applications pipeline. But for me, having done quite a bit of viewport modeling in Houdini lately, I see no reason to use anything else except when it comes to sculpting.

Hi everyone

Here are a couple of things im actually wondering to refresh my freelance workflow outside the studios, and I would like to know to share your personal experience, and opinion for those who have really dig around the subject

Do you think for viewport modeling, sculpting when a minimum of planned design is required not as freeform flow as what Zbrush and 3dcoat offer, Houdini is up to the level of Modo, Maya, or Blender for example? In regard to find a fast, and smooth, artist-friendly smooth workflow…
At some time and still today i was also thinking to combine with a Cad software , fusion360 or Moi, like some top-notch Concept Artists. Not sure i will greatly take benefice from this today if i choose houdini as my central tool even for concept Art design.. (Env,Rigid obj or Organic character)

Second question, i haven't explored much the UV section of Houdini yet, i think someone here mentionned he likes to export to 3dcoat , how good, straigh forward and efficient is Houdini in this area? What about compared to the standard in this area UV Layout for Headus?

Cheers,

vincent*
________________________________________________________________

Vincent Thomas (VFX and Art since 1998)
Senior Lighting Lookdev / Env DigiMatte Artist / Creative Designer VFX supervisor
http://fr.linkedin.com/in/vincentthomas [fr.linkedin.com]

I just got Houdini Indie. A step I wanted to take for awhile, but were relactant because Learning a new tool in the middle of my Little portfolio building is sort of a “new grab”. But, I did it because of many reasons..Just after seeing the modeling capabilities, I´m so suprised that Houdini isn´t a natural choice “yet” for concepting. Im really excited because as a freelance artist, I can get a tool that is a fraction of a cost of for example Maya or Modo, and use its powerful node based system for pretty much everything I can Think of, and then I just stepped on the tip of the cake. I will be doing everything from fur and hair on a character, pyro, animation,modeling, game assets with the Houdini Engine that translates extremely well into Maya in a pipeline where you can customize parameters and do for example a poly reduce, which is the best in its class right in Maya thanks to HOudini.

I just got it, so I can´t say much, but I will be gathering some real facts in order to make a good Review.

Thank you all in this great thread for your thoughts and different perspectives, which almost all of them speaks for this phenomenal tool.

Undoubtedly houdini will give you a plus in your art concepts, for the freedom of creation at an unsuspected level. But it is also true that you have to see houdini as a professional athlete you have to train every day to reach the goal. If you leave it for a while you lose status quickly as a professional athlete. In abstract concepts Houdini is the best, but it is also painful to master fluently and the help is an Egyptian hieroglyph.

Sorry for my bad English. Greetings to all.

Fco Javier
Undoubtedly houdini will give you a plus in your art concepts, for the freedom of creation at an unsuspected level. But it is also true that you have to see houdini as a professional athlete you have to train every day to reach the goal. If you leave it for a while you lose status quickly as a professional athlete. In abstract concepts Houdini is the best, but it is also painful to master fluently and the help is an Egyptian hieroglyph.

Sorry for my bad English. Greetings to all.

Thank you so much for your message. It really motivates and inspires me alot. Houdini is good for everything. It is a wonder which you can create anything you want with. No, Im not a professional athlete, they have to throw me out of the house to get some fresh air. Kidding aside my spanish friend. I think Houdini is easy to get in once you understand the framework. (Your English is fine.) Its not the language, its the ideas!!!!