BrianHanke
Next level solution: sculpting with Vellum Brush! :P

This looks interesting! I also found a couple cool tips re. sculpting in houdini here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loAvP68H8SM [www.youtube.com]

- a more interactive way of defining the sculpt vector and another "shotsculpt" tool that actually looks kinda promising too.

+1,

Even for generalist VFX there's a bunch of times where painting or sculpting is needed, the edit sculpt simply does not cut it. Attr paint is still convoluted and prone to workflow headaches, should i mention it's bugginess regarding completely loosing its data every so often?

Taking a cue from blender who managed to tackle paint and sculpt inside a 3d package would be welcomed.

I made a free Brush tool. It is also built into the Modeler add-on.
https://alexeyvanzhula.gumroad.com/l/brush_tool_for_houdini [alexeyvanzhula.gumroad.com]

Yes they should... 10 years ago.
Switching 3D software and tools is never efficient.
Swithing between app with different workflow and shorcuts is not ideal.
If Blender (a free software) has it, then Houdini should have it.

Sculpting and painting on models is not luxury in 2022, it is a requirement.
Anything that limits creativity (lack of important modeling and texturing tool) is bad.

I am an not saying that Houdini should become the best scluplting and painting tool.
But a minimum is required, because if you don't sculpt and paint, your models are not looking as good as they should.

Sculpting is the new Subdivision.

Houdini should invest a little in those 2 features, because right now, the world is laughing at them.

As long as Houdini is bending to the procedural fanatics, it will be seen as a "plugin" or a one trick poney.

You need a general 3D software first, then after that you need more specialized stuff. Houdini is gaining users because it is improving stuff that is considered the basis of a 3D sofware : modeling, uv editing, animation... If Houdini does not improve the more general stuff, it better convert Houdini to a simple Blender plugin, because this is where they are heading if they don't steer that boat quickly, in 5 years, houdini will be just a specialized tool like Z-Brush that is itself being replaced slowly by Blender.

Houdini is asking for a lot of money and the competition if fierce. More and more studios are switching to Blender. And with the money you save, you can buy a lot of amazing plugins. May I remind you that Houdini has 15 000 users and Blender has 300 000. You tell me that those 300 000 are not professionals, most of them not. But when a company is looking for a 3D software, they have to use what people know.

So this is not a game and the old users are not the future of Houdini. Unless you want to be like Lightwave (never improved because the users don't want any changes). Lightwave died this year. Houdini must run forward, because there is a F1 behind going 300kph. Blender will trample evey other 3D sofware, it is innevitable. Because they have a huge community contributing and now big companies and studios are backing it financially and contributing to the code.

We need sculpting and painting because if I have to go to Blender to do these things, I may not return to Houdini.

You need to think about the new users and the future. New users are not comming to Houdini because when they compare these sofware, Houdini is lacking some serious stuff that should have been there years ago.

Like I said, Houdini should have a decent sculpting and painting system, something good enough and useful for most people. These new techniques are essential and a great time saver to make realistic stuff. Also most of the technical stuff to make it good are already in Houdini.

Yes Yes Yes, do it, make it so, your life depends on it.

I do have a question, what do you mean Sculpting is the new Subdivision?

L

Houdini must be a general 3d package rather a vfx plugin.And the waekpoints of houdini now are the modeling/sculting tools,object/scene managment and ui/ux.Just my two cents.

Why must it be a general 3d package? I keep reading you guys pretty much demanding/telling us what direction the
software must go in, without nothing to back up your POV. Lot's of just plain faulty logic going on in here.

Switching 3D software and tools is never efficient.
Swithing between app with different workflow and shorcuts is not ideal.
If Blender (a free software) has it, then Houdini should have it.

Nope. Switching between applications is done all the time by thousands of people, that's what
obj, alembic, and usd is for. Pixar creating USD to bring unification to Computer Graphics highlights
how much we all use multiple apps.


Sculpting and painting on models is not luxury in 2022, it is a requirement.
Anything that limits creativity (lack of important modeling and texturing tool) is bad.

Agreed, but that is why zrbush, substance, mari have come to dominate this area. They are able to
dedicate themselves fully to this as it is literally their commercial reality.


I am an not saying that Houdini should become the best scluplting and painting tool.
But a minimum is required, because if you don't sculpt and paint, your models are not looking as good as they should.

Again, nothing stopping anyone using an application more orientated to this, and simply bringing it into Houdini for
rendering if that is what you want to do.

Sculpting is the new Subdivision.

Literally makes no sense. Subdivision is quite old, and apart from that, I don't see how the two are remotely related.


Houdini should invest a little in those 2 features, because right now, the world is laughing at them.

Nope. I don't see anyone laughing. Anyone picking up Houdini with a view to becoming a professional or as a hobby
is doing so based on it's procedural nature, and wealth of simulation tools.


As long as Houdini is bending to the procedural fanatics, it will be seen as a "plugin" or a one trick poney.

Making less sense here. Houdini from day one 25+ years ago was built around being procedural, literally the entire
paradigm of the application. Being a plugin or one trick poney? You are confused.
Houdini requires no plugins, because it is a 3D operating system giving you all the building blocks to make any type
of plugin you desire, which kinda means it's not a one trick poney doesn't it?

You need a general 3D software first, then after that you need more specialized stuff. Houdini is gaining users because it is improving stuff that is considered the basis of a 3D sofware : modeling, uv editing, animation... If Houdini does not improve the more general stuff, it better convert Houdini to a simple Blender plugin, because this is where they are heading if they don't steer that boat quickly, in 5 years, houdini will be just a specialized tool like Z-Brush that is itself being replaced slowly by Blender.

I can't even bring myself to address this one.

Houdini is asking for a lot of money and the competition if fierce. More and more studios are switching to Blender. And with the money you save, you can buy a lot of amazing plugins. May I remind you that Houdini has 15 000 users and Blender has 300 000. You tell me that those 300 000 are not professionals, most of them not. But when a company is looking for a 3D software, they have to use what people know.

The competition is not fierce in this realm. Bifrost is finally coming along getting more into a graph based procedural way of
working, but it's not there yet. Your beloved Blender is copying houdini's proceduralism with it's geometry nodes, looking pretty
good too! But we've had those nodes for 10-15yrs, and when you throw heavy data at them they work. Blender, not so much.
I would say 299,000 of them are not, if Studio hiring worldwide is reflective at all, which it is.
Companies do not build around users, they build around their knowledge base and needs, users have always had to fall in line and
learn the applications X-company uses. The only thing moving in this space is the reduced usage of internal proprietary tools to
more off the shelf ones, like, Houdini!

So this is not a game and the old users are not the future of Houdini. Unless you want to be like Lightwave (never improved because the users don't want any changes). Lightwave died this year. Houdini must run forward, because there is a F1 behind going 300kph. Blender will trample evey other 3D sofware, it is innevitable. Because they have a huge community contributing and now big companies and studios are backing it financially and contributing to the code.

Again, I don't know where to start with this one.

We need sculpting and painting because if I have to go to Blender to do these things, I may not return to Houdini.

Well that would be your loss then? Pretty much every single generalist I know simply models in whatever app they prefer and
exports to obj or alembic if they want to use something in Houdini.

You need to think about the new users and the future. New users are not comming to Houdini because when they compare these sofware, Houdini is lacking some serious stuff that should have been there years ago.

Nope. New users coming to houdini are coming for it's openness, procedural nature, and best in industry simulation tools.
You may really like modeling, but you are vastly overestimating how many people are using model/sculpt as the deciding factor
to whether they use app A or B.

Like I said, Houdini should have a decent sculpting and painting system, something good enough and useful for most people. These new techniques are essential and a great time saver to make realistic stuff. Also most of the technical stuff to make it good are already in Houdini.

You really only needed to say this. I agree it should have better poly modeling tools and some nicer sculpting for sure, but you
diluted your message with that wall of nonsense above.

Yes Yes Yes, do it, make it so, your life depends on it.

Nope, it really doesn't.

lewis_T
I do have a question, what do you mean Sculpting is the new Subdivision?

L

I mean that Subdivision (including the polygon modeling technique with bevel, extrude...) is now essential.
Back in the days, many 3D software continued to use splines, nurbs, bezier mesh and did not offer any polygonal tools.
You would not think of a 3D software without subdivision tools.

lewis_T
software must go in, without nothing to back up your POV. Lot's of just plain faulty logic going on in here.

You have the same attitude that Lightwave 3D users have.
For years they asked for the modeler and animator NOT to be merged in the same software.
Lightwave is now a lose loose situation.
There were never any new users and the old users are now without a software because only the fanatic users remains.


Houdini has the best workflow and is the most flexible.
It does things that only Houdin can do.

Most people or even studios needs to do everything : modeling, texturing, riggin, animation, lighting, rendering, post...
If your sofware can only do a few of these things, you need another 3D software.
This is where the problem start. Having to learn different software is a problem.
Switching between those software is a problem because they don't have the same shortcuts and workflow.
I am not even talking about the import/export problems.

Sculpting on site, in your scene with the final material is something that is needed.
For the same reason that most people turn the realtime raytracing in the viewport.

Houdini cannot be just a VFX Micheal Bay, because the needs of artists and studios is a lot more than just that.
You don't invest time in a 3D software as big and cool as Houdini without wanting to do everything else with it.
The explosions and water simulation are probably 3% of a movie.
I would rather use Maya and stay in there and use an expensive plugin than use many 3D software.

Once you are comfortable with a 3D software, this is where the speed gain happens.
Of course there are people in big studios that only do 1 thing over and over again.

AI will be a great part of 3D CG soon, maybe a few people will be able to make big movies.
Houdini WILL HAVE AI nodes to create models and shaders for you or animate characters automatically.

AIModel, AIRig, AIUVtexturing, AIHumanMotion...

One day a software is here, the next day it is not there.
I do 3D animation since 1989 mostly as an amateur, I have seen and lived through so many 3D software death.
You want to work with Houdini for the rest of your life, make sure it grows, improve always.
But more importantly it must make kids dream, it must make artist dream, it must attract new users all the time.

Blender has become a meme, mostly since the donut tutorial.
Meme are dangerous because they are powerful.
You now have a generation (army) of Blendlets flooding the industry in less than 5 years.

When I look on youtube for a Houdini polygon modeling there is none.
When I look on youtube for a good UV tutorial, there is none.
When I look on youtube for a line/spline/nurbs modeling there is almost none.
It is only procedural fanatic stuff on youtube.
99% of the stuff we see in movies is regular modeling : objects made by man.
The Houdini mentality of always braggin about nodes, math and procedural makes it useless for 99% of the actual stuff we need in a videogame or movie.

While Houdini users are getting lost in procedural and simulation, they produce nothing of value.
Meanwhile a 15 years old kid (William Landgren) makes "The Drink" with Blender... a real project.
You should all be affraid of Blender, people and studios are making whole movies with it.
"Next Gen" now on Netflix is a big movie only made with Blender.
It has plenty of special effects and simulation and they look good.
They were all made in Blender.

What does Houdini has to show other than 5 seconds here and there of explosions in a 2 hours long movie?

Because you are all stuck in your own Houdini bubble you fail to see the reality.

When I look on youtube for sculpting, it is not Zbrush anymore, but Blender.
More people are sculpting in Blender than in ZBrush.
ZBrush days are numbered because Blender has a better UI and workflow and it will go beyond ZBrush (stuck in the past).

Maya is legacy, it will only loose users until it is gone.
3D Max is already in a zombie state, only serving as boomer cad viewer.
C4D is only there because of their old users are not aware that the world is now a better place.
Houdini has to potential of outliving them all if it does the right thing.
No time to waste.

But there is a catch, the 3D CG industry is nothing compared to Unreal and Unity army marching and conquering.
More and more people are using these game engine as final render for movies and illustration.
*They are mostly free.

If you look at the speed and money Blender is going and gaining.
Every year it double it's budget and employees.
Every year it double its features.
Blender will be all node (Everything Node) in 5 years.
Blender procedural and node modeling is impressive and simple (because it is based on shader ui).
What houdini is using underneath to do its magic is all public domain formulas and published papers.
Everything Houdini does, Blender can simply do the same.
On the flip side, Houdini could copy Blender code because it is open source.


It is fun to be a Blender user, beacause there is an new version every day, tons of amazing plugins, tons of tutorial, tons of stuff made with Blender. Compared to that Houdini is a desert with a quiet community.
Blender has charismatic gurus like Ian Hubbert that inspire people.
Houdini has only boring tutorials (not saying they are not good, but they are very "professional")


I prefer Houdini for many reasons and I want it to thrive and more importanly survive.
Like it or not, there is an end to Houdini, be it 20 or 50 years, it will end.
But Blender will survive and split into millions of branches.
What I am saying is a wake up call becaues I want Houdini to be there, not only for me, but for everyone in 10 years.

Blender is an unstoppable hight speed train with no brakes, you don't want to be stuck on the track in front of it.

All of the above is a bit overstated, to say the least. Blender really isn't that great. It's fine, but not great. Houdini and Maya don't have anything to worry about.

That being said, I still agree strongly with the core point that Houdini could use some more artist-friendly, general-purpose tools. I've noticed SideFX making big progress on that front over the last few years and I hope to see them continue to make it a priority.

you seem to be forgetting something important. Sidefx customers are not individuals who make 3d for leisure.
sidefx customers are professionals in the film industry and entertainment. So, do its professionals need a houdini sculting tool? if so, sidefx would have developed this tool...

biborax
you seem to be forgetting something important. Sidefx customers are not individuals who make 3d for leisure.
sidefx customers are professionals in the film industry and entertainment. So, do its professionals need a houdini sculting tool? if so, sidefx would have developed this tool...

You are sadly right, that is why :

Blender has 300 000 users (quality may vary)
C4D has 64 000 users (exactly 40 years old people only)
Maya has 37 000 users (old boomers animators)
Zbrush 23 000 users (talented but paid pennies)
Houdini 15 000 (super talented and the most intelligent people)

As you can see Houdini has the number of users reserved for specialised tool and plugins.
What a shame. More users = more money and then more features.

We need a lot more users to make Houdini stay afloat and maintained.
Houdini would be the best PRIMARY 3D sofware and it is treated as a simple plugin by even its own users.
Don't you see that Houdini has everything to be the only one, but the lack of basic tools hurt.
Even if sculpting and painting is not the best in the world, a lot of people would use it because they would be already in Houdini and the workflow is amazing.

Why Wallmart and Amazon won the retail war? Because they have everything in the same place.
No need to drive to the car shop to buy oil, no need to drive to the toy store and electronic store.

I think that Houdini users and even the makers of Houdini don't realize how fantastic Houdini truly is.
What is here is a revolution, once you give it a little more attention and love.
Behind the plugin image, Houdini is the best 3D software ever minus : sculpting and painting.
Houdini is so comfortable to use, the feel is always "you are safe", it will do what you need.
Not only that but it will impress you, it will look better than what you had in mind.
And it will be even fun to make.

Houdini had big balls in making Solaris-Karma future proof.
They are the first to tell the world how we should work in this industry.
The work they do, no other company would have taken the risk.
The 3D CG world is already a better place because SideFX put the tools we did not even know we needed.

If you want to keep your Houdini alive and thriving, it must be an "incontournable" (french word).
Otherwise, in 5 years, you will be left with a software that is abandoned.
The industry is changing, and Houdini must offer decent tools that are neeeded to realise a project.
Not offering the tool required for modeling 50% of the object and creatures that exist in our universe is waste of good software.

Houdini, behind the nodes, the procedural and simulation hides a real treasure.
We must cherish it at all cost and be welcoming with open arms to new users.
Blender will never be Houdini.

PS : I would also like basic video editor in Houdini just like Blender is my video editor because it is way much more flexible and low level than a regular video editor.

What houdini is using underneath to do its magic is all public domain formulas and published papers.
Everything Houdini does, Blender can simply do the same.
On the flip side, Houdini could copy Blender code because it is open source.

You literally have no idea what you are talking about, this is brilliant.
Thanks for the laugh.

I am a programer, a real programmer ASM (Z80, i86, X64, Risc-V), C, C++, C#, Swift...
I made my own 3D animation software in the mid 2000, it was never released.
I helped with the development of other 3D sofware here and there.

When I say that most of the stuff used in Houdini is public domain, it is.
There are tons of published papers about simulation algorithm.
Flip and Bullet are well known.

Houdini's workflow and UI is purely their creation.
Karma is based on very well known algorithm and techniques.
USD is public domain, Solaris is not.

There was a book written int the 80's : Computer Graphics: Principles and Practice
by James D. Foley (I have the C edition signed by Albert Jacquard (that is a long story) ).
In it there are stuff that are only being used recently.
That is why we see the same stuff in every 3D sofware with better implementation here and there.

Not saying they are not improving these algorithm, but they are mostly common knowledge.

My point here is that nothing is out of reach of Blender's programmers.
Givent enough time and money. There are even open source libraries to include in your own 3D sofware to do crowd simulation and human motion automatically.

SideFx implement each of these known algorithm better than anyone else and they present amazing tools to the user.

Making my own 3D sofware made me respect a lot more the hard work it takes to make a 3D software.

You can come up with any arguments you want, I am always right (I would prefer to be wrong actually).
I was there before you and I will be there after you retire.
I have seen this industry grow from nothing to what it is today.
I have seen things you people would not believed...

lol, its all in good fun.

Trust me on the sculpting/painting tools, you may adopt it one day.

I am just gonna leave that here.

https://youtu.be/0ZvyqOAXMZI [youtu.be]

Then tell me that ZBrush is still relevent.
This is what happens when a 3D software has only 1 thing to offer.
The days of specialized tools are numbered.
Blender is here and it is about time Houdini start acknowledging that fact before it is too late.

Blender has exponential growth in features/plugins/tutorials/users/money/developpers/studia backing...
Houdini has a normal progression.
Maya has no progression
C4D has no progression
3DS Max has no progression

When all the artists/studio needs are filled by Blender, will there be a need for Houdini?

I am moving fully to Houdini.
I want to make sure I won't have to relocate again to Blender in 5 years because it is gone.
Right now I am not so sure.

Right now my impression of Houdini is mixed, it has a fantastic workflow and features,
yet there are many problems with the UI.
No fullscreen (2022 hello?), color themes are not downloading with weird error.
Help in some places leads to empty web page or dead link.
Multiple crashes that require a Linux reboot.

MarquisDeSang
Blender has exponential growth in features/plugins/tutorials/users/money/developpers/studia backing...
Houdini has a normal progression.
Maya has no progression
C4D has no progression
3DS Max has no progression

When all the artists/studio needs are filled by Blender, will there be a need for Houdini?

I am moving fully to Houdini.
I want to make sure I won't have to relocate again to Blender in 5 years because it is gone.
Right now I am not so sure.

Why aren't you already using blender ? It seems logical that if Blender has exponential growth and will swallow all the artists in the upcoming years, it would make sense for you to use Blender in the longterm, no ?

I'm genuinely curious.

With your longtime experience in the industry and your skills in programming you could contribute to Blender and possibly make better tools than Houdini has to offer.

I have used zbrush for years and Houdini for years , and zbrush is the fastest to use tool for modeling partially because it’s so optimized for what it does . Using the Houdini bridge you can literally live link it and connect the models on the fly , I’d rather side fx invest in its own tools for what it does best instead of becoming a jack of all trades master of none.


But if you wanna develop some plugins for Houdini for modeling I’m sure the community would appreciate it.

When Houdini is gone or abandoned, you will only have yourself to blame.
This is the kind of mentality that has killed so many 3D software.
This Lightwave mentality that a software shoult never progress.
Always stay the same and ignoring modernity or new techniques and tools.
Ignoring the tools that artist are asking for?
ZBrush has a late 90's viewport 3D engine.
ZBrush you model alone, not in the context of a scene.
It is only good because that is the only way you know.
If you were serious about sculpting, you would be using 3D Coat, not this abandoned videogame tool.

What do you care if houdini makes sculpting and paint tools?
Just don't use them.
What important features are missing that you need above proper modern sculpting+painting?

So why are you asking for SideFX to just collect the money and sit on their hands?
Everywhere on the internet, when people ask what sofware to learn, ther are only 2.
You know Houdini cannot do a complete project, only part of it.
Blender VS Houdini is the question.
The answer are always the same:

Blender can do everything (maybe not as easily or with plugins) and Houdini does not.
That is embarassing, having such a huge sofware and being seen as a plugin for 5sec movie clip.
The fact that Maya is still in use in a world where Houdini exist is a shame.
This is only happening because some basic features are missing in Houdini.

In 5 years, everything you love in Houdini will be in Blender (without legacy stuff).
Blender will not only be a new Houdini, but it will also have everything a serious artist or studio needs.
With a fresh UI that does support real color theme and fullscreen.
There are still popups in Houdini over the UI and that is a sin.

GPU rendering in Cycles is fully working for the past 3 years.
Houdini has not yet a fully functionnal GPU renderer.
They are late.

See how fast it goes. One day a sofware is there, the next day it is not.

The kind of arguments you have here is exactly the same I have read for years on the Lightwave forum.
Now they do not even understand why the sofware was abandoned by the company.
Refusing to improve the sofware at the demand of their users, no new users, no money...

I want sculpting/painting tool yesterday, becaus if I have to open Blender to do it, I won't comme back.