probiner
"I just want to talk"

We're doing exactly that here, aren't we? I also love how passionate you are about this! Honestly, this thread has exceeded my expectations.

I'm currently working on more fuel for discussion. It'll take some time, but stay tuned!

ruffemotion

probiner
"I just want to talk"

We're doing exactly that here, aren't we? I also love how passionate you are about this! Honestly, this thread has exceeded my expectations.

I'm currently working on more fuel for discussion. It'll take some time, but stay tuned!

Not really, if you are not listening. There's a difference between "just wanting talk" and just wanting positive feedback attention.
I've been contributing to this convo as much I recognized you've been putting earnest energy into the mockups of your ideas, but if you demonstrably keep ignoring some consensus feedback of focusing more on functionality and improving what is, and getting to know Houdini more; there's no honoring that.
Yes, go figure that, people in software X forum are passionate about it and have many opinions about improvements they would like to see. But If it's understood you're exploiting that for interaction farming and ignore what you're told, I don't see the benefit. You may be fueling something else.

Cheers

probiner
just wanting positive feedback attention.

Isn't this why you do... literally anything in life? Think about it for a second.

probiner
I don't see the benefit.

Doesn't matter if you don't, I do see huge benefits.

probiner
You may be fueling something else.

Like what? Riots?

oldteapot7
I guess some old and stiff users defend the old ugly interface because they are afraid of people who will migrate from other DCC apps like MAYA, C4D or Blender so they will have strong competition at job xD
Therefore thay want to keep this UI that looks like some ugly AF code edittor for programmers.

That is one cacamamie tinfoil hat statement if I ever saw one.
I'm not an experienced Houdini user and while I do like to see some lipstick put on the UI, I still think the most important thing to be addressed right now is the functionality/quality of like part of the UI. An UX improvement, basically.

And "old and stiff users" are secure enough in their competence, regardless of profession, to not be threatened by competition and often welcome it.
It's petty and unhelpful, please do better.

oldteapot7
I guess some old and stiff users defend the old ugly interface.

The beauty of a DCC interface is first and foremost about how well it enables you to interact with the content, collect information and ultimately; make you feel in control and allow you to go as fast as possible, with least frustration, from having an idea to implement/tweak it; be "In the flow". No one is saying there isn't room for improvement, visuals included; and people have been pitching sincere ideas to this topic. But you're not starting from a blank slate here. A lot of the feedback is akin to "form follows function" and it's being stubbornly ignored and replied instead with silly quips, and more mockups that demonstrate ignorance of the subject "being fixed".

"Design" is not about slick rounded boxes. It's a process that is being disrespected here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering_design_process#Research [en.wikipedia.org]
There is no research or diagnosis presented by ruffemotion. Only prescriptions that while fun, can't be taken seriously for the design subject.

ruffemotion

probiner
just wanting positive feedback attention.

Isn't this why you do... literally anything in life? Think about it for a second.

No. The base case for forums and online communities is to share information as you struggle to get something done or look out to learn more things and challenge yourself (I thought that was your purpose as you shared something you clearly put some time in).
Many times that means to give other people input a try or reevaluate your initial assumptions. Repeating "I just want to talk" while you ignore 80% of the talk generated, can be easily taken as instigation.

You still haven't made the case of "Why?" the UI needs to change and a clear diagnosis that communicates this, therefore your prescriptions will always feel alien. And people have limited good faith to provide, even if the topic interests them.

I challenge you again to go to Matt's wiki, replicate some topics, and then present the case of what in the current UI is failing or is a joy killer. Start "talking".

Cheers

i made quick variation (skin color) to check if Ruffemotion's proposition will work ok with what is important for me - Animation and IMO it does. i can see important elements so i can easily aim and hit them after 20 houers of stright animating (you know... deadlines sucks)
plus some of more minimalistic, line based node design with color coded flags and other stuff as quick test.

BTW. nodes could have different "shading" modes, like it is with mesh: (wireframe, shaded mode, textured). but for nodes it could be version with text, version with icons only or version with color flags, etc. whatever is needed atm.

oh and i dont like idea where you have node and node name is next to it. it makes too much mess and chaos in larger node trees. text should be inside node outline, same with all icons and other extra mini elements

.

Wow, that mockup looks so good. I'd keep Houdini open 24/7 just to Alt-Tab over to admire it every once in a while.

Just a reminder to keep things civil in here. A post in this thread was recently reported and I've deleted it. Thanks for your assistance.

oldteapot7
i made quick variation (skin color) to check if Ruffemotion's proposition will work ok with what is important for me - Animation and IMO it does. i can see important elements so i can easily aim and hit them after 20 houers of stright animating (you know... deadlines sucks)
plus some of more minimalistic, line based node design with color coded flags and other stuff as quick test.

BTW. nodes could have different "shading" modes, like it is with mesh: (wireframe, shaded mode, textured). but for nodes it could be version with text, version with icons only or version with color flags, etc. whatever is needed atm.

oh and i dont like idea where you have node and node name is next to it. it makes too much mess and chaos in larger node trees. text should be inside node outline, same with all icons and other extra mini elements

.

Those are some very ADFlame inspired nodes. The current houdini nodes are mostly fine, my main issue with them is how they are arranged on the canvas and how they mostly truncate information when using any of the (auto)layout tools, as well as the draw order of the elements eg. connected wire should always be on top, as well as quad (B/V/T/I/F) overlay (whatever it's called)...

here's a crude sketch of the proposed anatomy of the nodes, make of it what you will...

Yup, exactly like display options in viewport. So nodes could be more dynamic depending of wich task user is doing. fe. I like the idea of coloring nodes and custom shapes but that dont have to be visible all the time.

and could change depending on wich mode/tab you are currently on. So different info is showed in modeling context, differen in animation tab and so on.


1- yes its a toggle button, so you know if you make pernament changes to animation or just trying new key pose or something. Its very important button and i would even color coded it RED.

2- green lines above are bookmarks for keyframes, (it was also recently added to Houdini but is off by default) preatty handy tool for making life easier

Here is how it works in MAYA

well... why not

hMonkey
well... why

I like that you provided a need statement. Others can buy-in to that. That is real.

CURRENT MOOD:




I will publish my work on semantics in Houdini soon.

Fake will know Real.

ruffemotion
However, on that snake pit Discord server, where probiner and (I suspect) citizen came from

I haven't even open Discord app in the last few months. I strongly recommend that you (or anyone else) stop disparaging forum members, directly or broadly, if you want to keep this thread open.

One post was already reported (not by me BTW) and I can already smell Chris's thread smash hammer nearby and as much as I don't agree with some suggestions posted here, believe it or not, I'd like to see this discussion keep going. Hoping that something good will come out of it, like bringing some awareness to SideFX that some things about UI/UX (UX mostly) need improvements, if nothing else.

ruffemotion
Pay me...

No, you should pay us for consultation you're going to waste

hMonkey
here's a crude sketch of the proposed anatomy of the nodes, make of it what you will...

Nice, these address the maximizing of hit surface of flags and it provides parameter info that lowers the necessity of clicking on the node to grasp what's happening. I did similar for my Houdini package project:



In a way I like the cooking time is being displayed, on the other hand due to caching, I'm not sure it will be relevant compared to using the Performance Monitor.

What's the reason for swapping the flags around? I.e. Display being bottom left, when your previous diagram has it top left, etc.
I think changing the display to the left would counter a bit of existing muscle memory but I agree with your reason to make space for some info.

When I mentioned a global toggle to hide nodes names and just keep relevant info that allow one to grasp the logic of the setup in a more focused way, I think those options display could contribute to it.
I know overall the good practice is to name nodes to something meaningful, but some times you just have to have some nodes for intermediary steps, where doesn't make sense to be descriptive, each step of the way and it can be clutter. Maybe nodes could have a flag that makes their name visible or not upon a toggle? Dunno.

oldteapot7
2- green lines above are bookmarks for keyframes, (it was also recently added to Houdini but is off by default) preatty handy tool for making life easier

Here is how it works in MAYA

I didn't know about bookmarks, thanks.
https://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/anim/playbar.html#bookmarks [www.sidefx.com]

By the way I noticed if you double LMB the Bookmark it toggles the range slider into and out of the bookmark range. Very neat for general purpose timeline management.



Cheers

probiner
What's the reason for swapping the flags around? I.e. Display being bottom left, when your previous diagram has it top left, etc.
I think changing the display to the left would counter a bit of existing muscle memory but I agree with your reason to make space for some info.

In this case the muscle memory would be retrained fairly quickly if color coded correctly. Anyway it was about clearing up the node info space and grouping higher frequency buttons together, but it's fine ether way.

please... dark nodes against a dark background. No.
I'm fine with the nodes as is. I could used more shapes tho. They added that customization a long time ago but no one seem to have had the time to create their own. Myself included.
If anyone knows of a libs of custom ones, I'm all ears.

lrntbrt
They added that customization a long time ago but no one seem to have had the time to create their own. Myself included.
If anyone knows of a libs of custom ones, I'm all ears.

ref: https://lesterbanks.com/2017/06/create-custom-node-shapes-houdini-16/ [lesterbanks.com]

ruffemotion, can you share what you're using for your mockups? Specific colors, fonts, icons, etc. I'd like to make my Guide Groom interface proposal match your style. Thanks!

lrntbrt
please... dark nodes against a dark background. No.
I'm fine with the nodes as is. I could used more shapes tho. They added that customization a long time ago but no one seem to have had the time to create their own. Myself included.
If anyone knows of a libs of custom ones, I'm all ears.

Really!? It's about layout and re-organisation, the colours are as always customisable, and somewhat irrelevant. Although the gradation should be from dark to light... background to foreground elements... so with that in mind, yeah nodes should be lighter

Here's the quad node in action

files go to -> user prefs folder/config/NodeShapes/

Here it is with freeze overlay removed, unfortunately the button on the node is also removed, does anyone know if it could be kept on the node itself but not on the hud overlay?


sop.json (for the swizzle variant / reordered flags) goes to -> user prefs folder/config/NodeShapeFlags/
rename sop.json.noFreeze -> sop.json if you wish to test the no freeze variant

also... fiy it's just an experiment, so no need to get upset

EDIT:
Fixed the flag mapping and reduced to two variants and merged posts.