Just curious what happened to the post about what we are looking for in H21

SideFX is implementig (some) requested features

There was on the end too much bad wording.

The explanation I received from Chris McSpurren was:

“The wishlist thread had devolved into arguments and that was the main reason it was archived. (not deleted - still readable by SideFX staff)

Furthermore, wishlists don't really belong on the forum. They may give users the wrong ideas i.e. that this is how we want to hear about their suggestions (it isn't) and that they are in some way being assigned to people to work on (they are not) or that they are used to determine priority (they aren't).

RFE's (suggestions) should be submitted using the form on our site or e-mail to support or via direct access to our bug database (AUP customers only). https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/25347/ [www.sidefx.com] ”

It’s unfortunate that some good feedback was removed. I think it’s valuable for people to hear others’ perspectives. However, I agree that most of these threads end up as philosophical discussions about ideal UIs and future of AI and turn into personal insults and frankly become very frustrating.

Just wish the thread was closed vs archived.

The problem with RFE is that a huge number of genuinely important improvements go ignored for many years.
Personally, I only submit RFE for bugs and don't want to waste my time on feature improvement requests because there's little point in doing so.

I tend to agree with the points raised. When I initiated the H21 Wishlist thread, my intention was to foster a collaborative discussion that would bring attention to significant enhancements and pain points experienced by paying users. However, based on the response I received from SideFX, it seems they are not particularly interested in gathering that perspective through forums. This is unfortunate, as I recall Cristin mentioning that SideFX used to read every post and valued user input. Perhaps I misunderstood.

That said, many discussions within the thread devolved into unproductive debates on unrelated topics, like the future of humanity and artificial intelligence, with participants sometimes resorting to disrespectful behavior. From that standpoint, I understand SideFX’s position.

I do wish the thread had been closed rather than archived.

On a related note, I’ve also noticed that raising concerns about product quality, bugs, or even documentation often seems to provoke certain individuals at SideFX. It’s unclear why. As someone who has held a Chief Product Owner role for years, I have always valued this type of feedback from users, as it can easily get lost among bug reports and RFEs. However, given SideFX’s apparent lack of interest in gathering such feedback through the forums, I have since refrained from providing it. As a paying user, I would prefer not to risk being banned.

LukeP
The explanation I received from Chris McSpurren was:

“The wishlist thread had devolved into arguments and that was the main reason it was archived. (not deleted - still readable by SideFX staff)

Furthermore, wishlists don't really belong on the forum. They may give users the wrong ideas i.e. that this is how we want to hear about their suggestions (it isn't) and that they are in some way being assigned to people to work on (they are not) or that they are used to determine priority (they aren't).

RFE's (suggestions) should be submitted using the form on our site or e-mail to support or via direct access to our bug database (AUP customers only). https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/25347/ [www.sidefx.com] ”

It’s unfortunate that some good feedback was removed. I think it’s valuable for people to hear others’ perspectives. However, I agree that most of these threads end up as philosophical discussions about ideal UIs and future of AI and turn into personal insults and frankly become very frustrating.

Just wish the thread was closed vs archived.

thanks for the reasoning. I did a search for H21 wishlist and nothing came up, hence reason for my post. yeah, leaving it closed might be best

LukeP
I tend to agree with the points raised. When I initiated the H21 Wishlist thread, my intention was to foster a collaborative discussion that would bring attention to significant enhancements and pain points experienced by paying users. However, based on the response I received from SideFX, it seems they are not particularly interested in gathering that perspective through forums. This is unfortunate, as I recall Cristin mentioning that SideFX used to read every post and valued user input. Perhaps I misunderstood.

That said, many discussions within the thread devolved into unproductive debates on unrelated topics, like the future of humanity and artificial intelligence, with participants sometimes resorting to disrespectful behavior. From that standpoint, I understand SideFX’s position.

I do wish the thread had been closed rather than archived.

On a related note, I’ve also noticed that raising concerns about product quality, bugs, or even documentation often seems to provoke certain individuals at SideFX. It’s unclear why. As someone who has held a Chief Product Owner role for years, I have always valued this type of feedback from users, as it can easily get lost among bug reports and RFEs. However, given SideFX’s apparent lack of interest in gathering such feedback through the forums, I have since refrained from providing it. As a paying user, I would prefer not to risk being banned.

It was removed because it did not add anything of value, and to be honest, wish lists are a bit silly in a professional software environment.

It was mentioned several times in that thread, but I will repeat it.
The focus of sidefx is on the core features that the large paying customer base, the big studios, require, and work closely with to collaborate on tooling in a two-way support mechanism. A lot of the tools you enjoy in Houdini are the product of years
of investment and testing at studios.

When a user owning a single license of houdini, whose experience level, hardware, and general workflow/workload could be the issue, is putting forward requests or complaints, it's not always easy to ascertain if it's down to them/their setup, etc or problems in houdini.
That is not playing down for a moment valuable insights from single users, it's simply there is an agreed pathway through RFE's
to be able to log them, weigh up the benefit, and potentially implement.

When large customers/studios weigh in on bugs and features, it carries the weight of 100s of experienced users, with certified hardware, etc, meaning that it can readily be assessed to not be an issue due to variability of the user/hardware/workflow, etc being less likely to play a part in the problem. Likewise when an RFE comes in from a solo user it has to be weighed up as to is this a valid request that will make others workflow better, or is it too niche or potentially more on the users side not houdini?

RFE's absolutely do get through from solo/small teams, so it's a valid pathway.

Wish lists, every time one gets started on this forum I cringe.
This is not how professional level software is developed.

L

All fair points.

I do think that as the software grows the user base, combing through feedback of individual license holders/dusters will be important, but I trust that SideFX knows how to evolve their software as they had done for years.

I get your frustration, we've all had plenty of moments where you know something would be better if feature-X was done,
or there is a bug/behaviour that makes it hard or impossible to work.
sidefx do listen, they do fix a lot of things that are reported, even by a single instance, but I think forum wish lists descend into a mess at such predictable rates you can set your watch by them.

L

I'm sorry to see that the "Houdini 21 Wishlist" thread was removed due to the hostility it generated. What surprises me the most is seeing so many opinions from users with limited experience, often asking for features that aren't inherently unnecessary, but seem that way because of how they’re being used without deeper understanding of the software.

Personally, I use Houdini in the motion graphics field, where a more streamlined and fast workflow is essential. Coming from Cinema 4D, I’ve found Houdini to be extremely functional, though I admit there are a few “hidden clicks” in the basic workflows.

While the interface may not be the most intuitive in terms of design, it is highly functional. My only real critique is the lack of a more seamless way to dock and undock windows, as many other modern software do. Another feature I’ve been thinking about for a while is the ability to place gizmo-like nodes in the network for more automated controls, something that might even be possible with Apex, though I’m not certain.

I don’t want to restart the previous thread by reigniting criticisms, but I believe it’s important to make thoughtful, constructive critiques that help the software evolve.

Lastly, I encourage users to submit RFE requests. From my experience, SideFX listens. Even small requests have been taken into account and implemented in future versions. So, if there are improvements that don’t drastically alter the software, please keep submitting RFE requests, because SideFX really values user feedback.

lewis_T
It was removed because it did not add anything of value, and to be honest, wish lists are a bit silly in a professional software environment.

It was mentioned several times in that thread, but I will repeat it.
The focus of sidefx is on the core features that the large paying customer base, the big studios, require, and work closely with to collaborate on tooling in a two-way support mechanism. A lot of the tools you enjoy in Houdini are the product of years
of investment and testing at studios.

When a user owning a single license of houdini, whose experience level, hardware, and general workflow/workload could be the issue, is putting forward requests or complaints, it's not always easy to ascertain if it's down to them/their setup, etc or problems in houdini.
That is not playing down for a moment valuable insights from single users, it's simply there is an agreed pathway through RFE's
to be able to log them, weigh up the benefit, and potentially implement.

When large customers/studios weigh in on bugs and features, it carries the weight of 100s of experienced users, with certified hardware, etc, meaning that it can readily be assessed to not be an issue due to variability of the user/hardware/workflow, etc being less likely to play a part in the problem. Likewise when an RFE comes in from a solo user it has to be weighed up as to is this a valid request that will make others workflow better, or is it too niche or potentially more on the users side not houdini?

RFE's absolutely do get through from solo/small teams, so it's a valid pathway.

Wish lists, every time one gets started on this forum I cringe.
This is not how professional level software is developed.

L

In other words, SideFX doesn't value indie users and doesn't want to hear their opinions. I'd suggest to remove indie license completely and shut down this forum. This will ensure they only need to deal with large customers/studios.

I actually worked for a company that makes "professional" software (a medical record management system). Just like you describe, they only care large clients. They have salemen to talk directly to hospitals' procurement. No forum or social media. No indie license (obviously). No even a listed price (every sale is negotiated). Their website is a CMS built by some contractors, even when they have web developers in house, and never get updates since then. That's usually how professional software look like.

If that's the future of Houdini people vision, then so be it.

raincole
In other words, SideFX doesn't value indie users and doesn't want to hear their opinions.

As an Indie user myself - my experience is the exact opposite.
I've gotten so much help over the years from Support, unlike so many other software venders; SideFX has been tops in my experience.

BabaJ

raincole
In other words, SideFX doesn't value indie users and doesn't want to hear their opinions.

As an Indie user myself - my experience is the exact opposite.
I've gotten so much help over the years from Support, unlike so many other software venders; SideFX has been tops in my experience.

Same

BabaJ

raincole
In other words, SideFX doesn't value indie users and doesn't want to hear their opinions.

As an Indie user myself - my experience is the exact opposite.
I've gotten so much help over the years from Support, unlike so many other software venders; SideFX has been tops in my experience.

Same here. We're not small enough to be "Indie" but with only a handful of licenses we're definitely not a "big" customer either. Of all the software vendors I've dealt with in multiple industries for the last 20+ years of my professional life SideFX is my gold standard. There's always room for improvement, but they are more responsive and have better systems in place for collecting user feedback than almost anyone else I've dealt with. Sure, I've got RFEs that were never implemented, but I've also reported bugs that were fixed in less than 24 hours, so I really don't have any complaints.

BabaJ

raincole
In other words, SideFX doesn't value indie users and doesn't want to hear their opinions.

As an Indie user myself - my experience is the exact opposite.
I've gotten so much help over the years from Support, unlike so many other software venders; SideFX has been tops in my experience.

Of course I was being sarcastic. I've received help from SideFX support in the past too.

But I also remember in the past, pepole could talk about their wishes for the future version of Houdini without being deleted or even banned:

https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/79414 [www.sidefx.com]
https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/84558 [www.sidefx.com]
https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/86202 [www.sidefx.com]
https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/92736 [www.sidefx.com]

It seems that SideFX's policy toward community building has changed.

BabaJ

raincole
In other words, SideFX doesn't value indie users and doesn't want to hear their opinions.

As an Indie user myself - my experience is the exact opposite.
I've gotten so much help over the years from Support, unlike so many other software venders; SideFX has been tops in my experience.

I totally agree! SideFX support has always been fantastic in my experience as well. Whenever I've requested features, they've not only listened but often provided helpful responses or even example files to help me achieve what I was asking for, where possible. Their support has been second to none compared to other software vendors

raincole
In other words, SideFX doesn't value indie users and doesn't want to hear their opinions.

This is nonsense. I`m not even an Indie subscriber (yet) and still learning with the apprentice version but when I had a problem while experimenting with dynamics not only did Nick Petit from Sidefx answer extensively but he even took the time to modify my scene! And btw, the forum members are just fantastic as well, big shoutout to Tomas Slancik who also helped me with the above issue!

raincole

BabaJ

raincole
In other words, SideFX doesn't value indie users and doesn't want to hear their opinions.

As an Indie user myself - my experience is the exact opposite.
I've gotten so much help over the years from Support, unlike so many other software venders; SideFX has been tops in my experience.

Of course I was being sarcastic. I've received help from SideFX support in the past too.

But I also remember in the past, pepole could talk about their wishes for the future version of Houdini without being deleted or even banned:

https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/79414 [www.sidefx.com]
https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/84558 [www.sidefx.com]
https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/86202 [www.sidefx.com]
https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/92736 [www.sidefx.com]

It seems that SideFX's policy toward community building has changed.

Or maybe (just maybe) that thread was really totally spiralling out and leading to nowhere?

I remember only one other thread that had been closed because one guy was posting endless amounts of videos of running water there and thought that was going to help Sidefx with fluid dynamics...

raincole
In other words, SideFX doesn't value indie users and doesn't want to hear their opinions.

With all due respect according to my experience this is a huge overstatement.

raincole
It seems that SideFX's policy toward community building has changed.

It seems that SideFX's tolerance for useless forum noise has diminished.

FTFY.