Having just had look at Softimage ICE i can see that it uses the simliar and most excellent and powerful way of working as Houdini. I don't know how deep ICEs power goes but you can see that a great deal can be achieve already.

But one major difference is that XSI is almost tailor made to be learned, drunk, absorbed by the students. It makes a conserted effort to let non-astronaughts know what it can do.

You can just see crowds of excited Icers building a really healthy vibrant comunity, bringing the nodal approach to the masses. And this is bound to happen given the power of customisation and stylization inherent in this method.

On the other hand it strikes me that unless Houdini makes very serious effort to produce user friendly, easily accessable and fun tutorials then it will continue to have another 20 years worth of ‘ahead of time’ technology behind the times. Oh, the irony.But I'm still astounded by the ease of Midi and Audio inegration and motion editing with Chops.

I'm two weeks into taking Houdini learning curve seriously. I'm learning the software and doing the 3dBuzz Battle Cruiser competion. But its trial by fire most of the way. Yes, this approach is very benifitial for me at the moment, as it slows me down and forces me to think clearly. But once past the initial stages of enthusiasm and owe, the jungle of trying to find info on bits of networks, and nodes, and expressions and codes and tantilizing glimpses of amazing things to come gets frankly a little frustrating.

There is no coherent learning road map.
It is is such a pitty that Houdini's techinical brilliance is not match by the down to earth, step by step, clear, simple (as opposed to simplistic or complex), heart-full and fun learning adventure!

ok… back to the drawing board…..

Keep at it Houdinski,

There is no question that more tutorials are needed – there is also no question that there are now more tutorials and high quality learning materials then ever.

All I can do is assure you (and perhaps, others reading this thread) is that your patience will be rewarded once you overcome the initial learning curve.

Truth be told, ‘easy’ is often synonymous with ‘old’ – a dangerous word in the world of visual effects. Try to think of it in these terms: if something is ‘easy’ to do then everyone can do it. If everyone can do it, it's no longer a ‘special’ effect.

The minute you can click a button, and get ‘an army of orcs’, I assure you, no one will want to see ‘an army of orcs’.

A special effects is special once – the first time you see…

Good luck,

G

Feel free to add some specific items to this thread that you'd like to see covered in a tutorial. I can't guarantee ETA on any tutorials, but I like making them.

There should be a request page/thread.

I know i would love to see more rigging but then again there are dvd's by 3d buzz hat you can buy. There isnt alot of actual animation tutorials. Show Houdini doesnt have to be procedural if you dont want it to be. I think being procedural can turn some people off, but think of artists and techie both using the same product for different tasks? what a utopia

More VOP and rendering stuff Although there are a few streaming/dvd's content outthere i dont think there is enough. Compared to the other areas of houdini that are available for purchase or download.

Ok, I'm going to keep it to few lines cos i need to delete the presence of an absence of sleep.

I'll take some time to think things over and tomorrow will write a juicy reply.
All I can think of is - Scratch meets Houdini meets StarLogoTNG meets Bryce meets Amorphium meets Zbrush meets Painter.. and then sum.

Information Visualization is my favourate subject cos i can't understand things unless i see or feel them and i'm working on the idea of synaesthesia. All around us are synchrnized images, adverts, phone backlights etc.. we want to be in synch.. its natural.

Thats why I love Houdini. It makes sense to me that i can copy a pot of tea, millions of times, when I hit the middle C. I like that sort of thing.

Intuitive interfaces should litterally hide all the power underneath. They don't reduce the amount of potiential but increase it exponantially. A great teacher should be able to come down to the level of the pupil and reveal the natural philosphy of life.

Not unlike what Richard P. Feynman and his father did http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk8TVopOBGE [uk.youtube.com]
“Natural Philosophy” was the original term for Physics.

Trouble is that most software is writen by and for programmers - and i'm rappidly becoming one as I learn Houdini.. and i want to record my transformation, from being an artist to being a node-weaving organic chop-tastik multi-tasking dude, in all its supermaterial rgb detail.

..i'll sleep on it.. but in the mean while here are some of my extrusions into the non-linear get-to-the-point attribute land.

http://s706.photobucket.com/albums/ww64/Houdinski/ [s706.photobucket.com]
and on 3dBuzz
http://www.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=173006&page=6 [3dbuzz.com]
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vrlztz5WCus [uk.youtube.com] my youtube experiments
p.s i'm rather enjoying the strangly stafisfying mental pingpong existance of being caught betwix being vexed, choped and painted balled by post-converted meta squishies.

Houdinski

keyframe
There is no question that more tutorials are needed – there is also no question that there are now more tutorials and high quality learning

Truth be told, ‘easy’ is often synonymous with ‘old’ – a dangerous word in the world of visual effects. Try to think of it in these terms: if something is ‘easy’ to do then everyone can do it. If everyone can do it, it's no longer a ‘special’ effect.

I whole heartedly concure that there are indeed more tutorial now. I've known about Houdini for about 7 years now. And its only very recently that tutorials have become more easily accessable and organized.

However, when one sees a genius peace of software not being given a chance to make a joyful, yes joyful (the sense of wonder of learning), and lasting impression on future minds, i cannot help but feel that its potential has yet to be fulfilled.

If I had the resources I would definately put together small but dedicated tutoral OPs team to bring out the zing and illumine the depth, electrify the streaming media and reach critical mass neccesary for inspirational creations to be born. It is most definately, infinately worth it!

I understand the ‘easy’ = ‘old’ paradigm, implying ‘hard’ = ‘new’. But what i'm trying to suggest is that if information is built in logical sequences, slowly slowly, the person builds a foundation for being able to hand enormous complexity. This is because they feel at ease with each part of the job.

'the balance' .. oh.. connect a shiny multi-threaded metalic object operation to ‘da balance’ i hear some digital echoes sing.

The reality based, balance, incremental approach doesn't standardise the way many would work, making their creation lack in inspiration. No more than learning how to drive makes everyone drive to the same destination.

'Easier' tutorials would help me undertand the governing dynamics of nodal universes more thoroughly, which is my personal goal - grounded, clear, fresh and open creativity.

I think one of the best ways to learn is for absolute beginners - in houdini's terms - to share their learning experience, which is what i'm going to do by putting some of my own remixed-houdinema tutorials online. That way i get to learn, and some one else may 2.

Allegro
Feel free to add some specific items to this thread that you'd like to see covered in a tutorial. I can't guarantee ETA on any tutorials, but I like making them.

Thank you very much for the offer, perhapst:


Sphere
Attribute
Copy
Point

simply.. here's a sphere, a point, an attribute.. and here is a copy op, and here is how many things you can do with them without going anywhere.

such starting point would be absolutely fantastic. These OPs have been very important in my own learning (please check out the links above) and although i got the desired results, i'm still not quite sure how. The procedural forest tutorial was a real inspiration.

Sphere
Attribute
Copy
Point
Reading the manual covers all of those ? Or even explore the examples that ship with each node .

R

I really enjoyed the procedural forest tutorial where the attribute create was used.

But it would be nice to have dedicated ‘attribute’ tutorial, instead of a few moments of description or example files that are hard to deconstruct as a beginner.. its about the human touch.

Just a thought.

I've almost replied a few times to this thread, but then re-read what you posted and found that I don't *particularly* disagree with you. I would say this however:

1. SESI has made a lot of headway in providing well done walkthroughs of various areas. I don't just mean ‘for SESI’, they really have provided a lot of material. In addition, the help is filled with a lot of very practical examples ranging from basic things like all the SOPs you mentioned above(and as circusmonkey alludes to) to more intermediate OPs like those that deal with attributes. You've also got folks like A11egro literally asking for requests for demos. Can't get much more responsive than that.

2. There are more online classes for Houdini out there. There comes a point with *every* piece of software that you can't expect the documentation to replace experience. It's simply not practical with such a deep application.

3. I *do* agree with you about a roadmap, though. Right now once you get past the basic interface material and a few walkthrough examples, I can see there's a sense of ‘what now?’. There needs to be some thought put into framing much of the material that is there. I don't think you can please everyone about everything to do in Houdini, there's so much, but yeah, a skeleton is needed I think.

Cheers,

J.C.

A glimpse into the beginners' mind who has to learn new syntax, new paradigm, new abstract concepts, self-discipline and self-determination.. and handle information scarcity divided by information overload, sit-ups and finding clarity.

Lets, for few brief moments, pretend that there exists, a Monkey who is strapped to the hull of a Quantum Space-cruiser.. called ‘Self-employment’

The Space Monkey.

Monkey - mind you is not your average monkey, but a creature of above average curiosity and below average discipline is strapped (his own choice) to a space ship whose power he could not possibly fathom. Half of an anti-empty cup of chi is accidentally dropped on the control centres' touch-table. Another, nicer, monkey while wiping the liquid of the bio-luminescent display, accidentally touches the launch button… and boom.. the Monkey is propelled at unreal speeds to a mysterious and engaging universe of potential possibilities….

.. now I am .. sorry, the monkey is.. drifting through the depth of interstitial deepness of utterly spacious space. All around are the jewel encrusted 3d networks of stars and galaxies = clusters of churning info nodes and juicy Yata! experiences.

The Monkey has very little chance of getting his bearings in all this vastness so he propels himself to the stars clusters to see if there is anyone there who can help him. Eventually, after learning to talk the talk a little, he finds advice he seeks and realises that scattered disparately throughout the vastness of deep space are countless being who can help him. If only he had the energy and time to see them all.

With the protective spacesuit of self-control, support and guidance from his new friends, and shimmering fragmented space-map our clueless hero gravitates towards new constellations of learning. But a feeling of sadness suddenly befalls Monkey – he is overwhelmed by information and starved of quality and wishes someone would break things down for him, so he could take responsibility for his own adventure by getting to grips with some raw, fundamental basic laws of the universe he now finds himself in.

While taking a small, and much need break from all the floating around, Monkey remembers a story his grand grand father told him on the photonic disc about a old, actually ancient, timeless .. basically not very new at all, kung fu legend called ‘The One who knew he did not know’.

The One who knew he did not know…

Once upon a never time, an esoteric warrior squintillions of universes ago searched for incalculable aeons, battled dragons and subdued all sorts of energies just to have the chance meet the Dude. After being bruised and battered from all the trials and tribulations, having learned trillions of languages, dialects and modes of expression; having gone astray, been misled, been given incomplete information, the esoteric warrior collapsed at the foot of astronomically high mountain.

Scraping himself onto the first step of the stone-hot ladder he could at long last breathe a sigh of relief. At the end of that non-linear morphing ladder lies the Throne which the Dude affectionately referred to as that which can ‘actualize anything you visualize’. Thus, laying there.. worn out clothes..unshaven, but happy, he finally realized that his epic journey was, in fact, quite worth it in the end, even if he was obviously still far from reaching his aim of manifesting his dreams.

No one really knows how far he went up that ladder, or even if at all. It is told, however, that he called for help, asking to be shown the super secret technique of the Efficient Way of Learning. For its is only when he has mastered this most special technique could he hope to achieve his ultimate goal – Freestyle technique-less thingy of moving with ease through the 3 dimensions of the Dudes' ever-changing, complex formations of the mysterious mountain of interconnected whole, and then at last finally reaching the wish fulfilling throne. He also understood that his real journey had only just began. Oh, if only he knew how to proceed in small steady steps onwards and upwards, while taking time to see the stunning view of glowing opalescent hues in the vastly minute and impermaning Iz-ness…init.

…as an after-taste:

In days of old, knowledge of mathematics was the privileged domain of select few. Insurmountable odds had to be overcome to learn maths and be able to apply it. Now, any book store or library has books detailing the A-Z of mathematics, giving the road map of logical progression from one level simplicity to another, which when combined, becomes an evolving emergent system of natural complexity. I salute human creativity and desire for self-betterment.

talk about getting to the point.

Right now, your as clear as mud.

In my eyes the way providing training works is.

What do people want.
Are there anyone educated enough with enough spare time to provide it.
Are you leaving anyone out.

In my eyes almost every part of Houdini has had a small taste in teh training arena. Of course there are sectors which need more attention than others due to popularity.

But the area of animation has really took a back seat considering how SESI (in my eyes) want to provide an all-round approach to production work. From Modelling to Render and Compositing.

Animation, Rigging and VOP's shader should be getting a little more attention. Although there is training for Rigging (which i will eventually buy the training wouldn't hurt) and as for VOPS, i still dont know weather CMI offer DVD's instead of streaming.

But animation is the real loner here. Only one or two videos and thats including the one Robert made for this months 3d World.

I think SESI has won over the technical folks i think they need to show the artists of the world that you dont need to be procedural.

90% less creative writing. 344% more 3d.

… lest the clever little monkey write himself straight to the unemployment line. :wink:

G

..its ok, i just need a few more thousand years of forum searches and i'll write like Shakespear and sculpt like Rodin! :wink:

I like ‘phrenzy84’ points and once the 3dbuzz competition is over i'll post some animation tutorials - chops are very cool.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that I would love the likes of DigitalTutors XSI ICE dvd, which details 160 nodes, to be made avaible for Houdini.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that I would love the likes of DigitalTutors XSI ICE dvd, which details 160 nodes, to be made avaible for Houdini.

There is nothing stopping you reading the manual and asking questions. Infact spending your time doing that would be time well spent.

R

Houdini is like language, you can only learn it by doing it. Textbooks only go that far…If you want to write poetry it takes lot of effort and practice. The same with houdini. 3.000 gazillion more tutorials would not help.

Pagefan
Houdini is like language, you can only learn it by doing it. Textbooks only go that far…If you want to write poetry it takes lot of effort and practice. The same with houdini. 3.000 gazillion more tutorials would not help.

This isn't figure drawing, or some other observational skill. Practice wont make things perfect if you dont know how things work in the first place.

If i decided to do something i have no knowledge about and didn't have alot of documentation i would either expect to get nowhere or get something i didn't want.

You cant give someone Houdini and say “work it”, you got a month…a year….a decade. Just practice.

Its an unreasonable expectation for the majority of people.

It's funny that you think tutorials wouldn't help. Is this a comment on the tutors or the students? Is SideFX wasting their time helping people? Are we wasting time watching and going through them?

The analogy “Houdini is like a language you can only learn by doing it” is false. The term “doing it” implies that you already know where to go and what to do. If that is so then you don't need any help in the first place.

But take learning your first language. The way you learnt was by feedback and observation, not just by talking jibberish. You watch/listen to people talk and were corrected time and time again until you got it right. Just like a tutorial. Until you reach a point where you can sustain yourself in learning other words/phrases/grammar.

People just want to get to the point where they can learn on their own. Do you really think we like asking/watching tutorials?I like learning stuff but I would love the day when i didn't have to watch another tutorial.

Apologies for the long post, i just thought i would respond to a comment which seemed to have little or no thought behind it and respond accordingly.

I wish someone would make more video tutorials for houdini 9.5,the free version,or any version for that matter and tell what version they are using for their tutorials.it's very frustrating to see good tutorials,then discover that the version you are using is different and can't figure out how to remedy the situation.

phrenzy84
This isn't figure drawing, or some other observational skill. Practice wont make things perfect if you dont know how things work in the first place.

Its an unreasonable expectation for the majority of people.


The analogy “Houdini is like a language you can only learn by doing it” is false. The term “doing it” implies that you already know where to go and what to do. If that is so then you don't need any help in the first place.

Superb!

One cannot open the airlock in space without a space suit on and expect to survive!

I would so love to be able to just make the visuals I want in Houdini. But most tutorials out there (i can only really recommend 3dbuzz for a thorough introduction to Houdini with their free online classroom) just don't
seem to undertand that most beginners, or even intemediate people don't know and have rarely used an inherently logical, process-based, procedural, programatical and detailed method to achieve their goal.

Taking Attribute Create for example. This is very powerful and rightly so but I have never needed to create one anywhere else. (Actually MITs ‘Sratch’ helped me understand the use of variables.) That's not to say I shouldn't want to learn how to. In fact, I really want to learn! But the closest I ever get to doing so is through a few quick reference in a tutorial which is usually bringing together several other things.

Glimpses of water don't quench thirst. I'm not complaining that there is absolutely no information out there. What I am suggesting is that the information that is out there makes more sense to someone who has already aquired the knowledge the hard way, or through devine TD intervention.

eg. There are a lot of nodes in Houdini help that don't have any examples. Others do, but I dare a beginner to figure out how the ‘For Each’ node works… i've tried i promiss.

I know that I'm also trying to learn some intermediate material, but the point remains - the coherent ‘roadmap’ is not available, so I can only travel the territory by virtually bumping into things.

When I've learned enough I swear I'll make the kinds of tutorials I would like to have seen myself when starting out on this voyage.

I wish my self luck. It's not Houdini that's difficult - for it is very ellegant and ass kicking at the same time - but finding someone who is willing to share in a natural way, and in a form which also takes into account the differences in experience.

Still I thoroughly enjoy the spirit of creativity and intellectual enquiry.
peace and blessings …

http://localhost:48626/nodes/sop/foreach [localhost]


there are some examples at the bottom…
there is also some explanation on these forums, use search to find them…