I'm getting a bit concerned how Sidefx layout editing tool Solaris is the basically same since the last 3 major versions, which is mostly not very good. Id really like to use this tool but i just don't get whats going on.

Seems for precise layout editing you have two options, the stage manager or edit node. In edit node you cant delete or duplicate.
I open houdini and put down a single sphere and stage manager node. First it doesn't let me select my object because i'm not in the select mode. Why is this? Why can't I select another object in Move mode? You could do this in SOP edit. It was fine. With the edit node in lops you can select objects while in move/rotate/scale mode but only one! Why ? If i want to go to select mode and come back do my transform. In stage manager im not even able to transform multiple objects. It does highlight two object but pivot stays at one and only one object is getting transformed.

It really does need a lot to make layout editing effective, i need to be able to copy, delete objects, select and transform multiple them efficiently, would be nice to able to align an object to another and an easy way to replace my inputs but keep my layout. Is there a way not to use the snap menu when you press x but instead have the snap active while the button is pressed? Why is physics based transforms are not available in stage manager, only in the edit node?

There is also the layout tool, where plenty of function just doesn't work in the default point instancer mode, you have to change to something else or you cant copy things for example even though there is zero indication of this. There is a nice tooltip telling you have to press Z to copy and somehow be aware this tool doesn't work at all in the default mode. But ok lets try with instancable references. I made a gif about how does that looks like. Also not sure how i can easily put assets to assetgallery besides componentbuilder, and how can i replace objects easily after they been layed out.

Do i miss something here? How do you guys create your layouts? Does sidefx planning to to streamline ever this experience, or we just going to get new brushes in every release?

That reminds me of an RFE I submitted in late 2022...

Hello SideFX team, it would be great to see faster manipulation of assets brought in via the Stage Manager LOP. What I would like to do: Bring in a model, place it, bring in another model, place it and make adjustments to both, place another model, make further tweaks to all three, bring in some more etc etc. The issue is that the Stage Manager LOP doesn't let you select a different prim in the viewport without first explicitly hitting the 'S' selection shortcut, and then Enter to bring the transform handle back up. This results in extra clicks when making layout adjustments and slows down workflow. If you select prims in the SGT, the transform handle automatically switches to the newly selected prim, or you can click the handle gizmo icon in the Stage Manager's QT panel. Neither of these are fast selection methods and I would consider it bad UX for doing quick layout edits. We also don't seem to have the ability to manipulate more than one prim at a time, which is another workflow killer when populating a scene with the Stage Manager. The Edit LOP handles these sort of quick edits much better, it would be nice if the Stage Manger could match that behavior. Thank you.

Argree. The layout tools are not very usable in real production.
I am still working in obj context and import all into lopnet now.

That is pretty crazy considering one reason solaris was created because lacked the layout context...instead we getting these brush based tools for creating vast amount of copies non-procedurally, when you really want to do this procedurally and houdini already excels doing it.

So how do you do layout in vanilla houdini?

So far im using copy and edit nodes, but the problem is edit seems convert viewport selection to the prim number, meaning i cant have multiple type of assets in the same edit or my transforms would just shift when i add a new object not to the end of the line

Many thanks!

Stage manager in action: you can select multiple objects but they not going to move!

blakshep
Stage manager in action: you can select multiple objects but they not going to move!

This should be fixed, extremely annoying.

The layout tools needs an overhaul change.

The number of basic usability features missing in Solaris is way, way too high. SideFX should really take a look at making it a lot more user-friendly, and minimising all the busywork.

Here's a list off the top of my head:
- No camera focus object. Good luck managing your focus in an animation.

- No easy or quick way to edit incoming materials textures from an existing USD. Select a prim > right-click > More Editor Nodes > Edit Material Network. Alternatively, Create Edit Material Network LOP > Add the multiparm > populate the material prim path > Click Load > Dive inside to edit! Now, repeat this for every single other material you need to edit. Good luck managing hundreds of incoming materials, something that a lookdev environment should excel at.

- No easy way to queue up sequential renders, you *have* to know how to use TOPs and even then, it's a disastrous UX in managing the parameters on different ROPs. The new Clone system does not address this. Frankly, I'm not sure what the clone system is addressing.

- The Layout LOP is, objectively, a tragedy. A ton of potential, but reduced to a buggy, clunky unusable mess of a tool. I won't touch it again until it is reworked, with a UX specialist (and not a programmer) in the lead of its development.

- No easy way to see the size objects. You either have to use an orthographic view and look at the grid numbers, or select the prim, and then in the Scene Graph Details pane, look at the World Bounding Box Info and try to figure it out from that.

- No scale management on any of the file import LOPs. You have to use an additional Transform LOP to manage scale and even then, that ignores cameras. You also need an extra Configure Layer LOP to edit the units to manage the viewport scale of things like the light and camera icons. It's SO clunky!

- Houdini 20 introduced a disconnect between viewport renderer and Render Settings renderer that requires unnecessary manual management to sync them up. This is just extra work for no good reason.

- No easy way to identify materials in a Material Library when you have many of them. All other DCCs figured out material thumbnails ages ago, but Houdini stubbornly refuses to let users have a sane material management experience.

- The Light Mixer ignores all emissive materials, which makes the solo function entirely useless when you have emissive materials in your scene.

I have plenty of other usability issues as well, though wanted to focus here about the layout part as it was marketed a layout tool, but after 3 major and 2 half versions its exactly like how they released in 2019, buggy and unusable. I agree Layout tool has some cool ideas but it is executed badly with zero regards how usable the end product is.

I thought when Solaris first got released they focusing on having the framework ready to allow companies develop for it, and will work out the chunkiness in time, but seeing how stupid bugs that you would expect from an alpha software are still in it i really have no idea whats going on.

Would be nice if someone from Sidefx could shed some light on whats going on, as so far this is false advertising.

Also if anyone has a tip how to layout in sop context, let me know please! The edit node would be almost there for me but my problem it cant handle changing numbers of inputs because the for me it seems it converts the viewport selection to prim numbers.

Cheers

It's optimistic I know, but what I'd really like to see in this thread is some response from Sidefx themselves, with particular reference to the issues Eikonoklastes raises above.

While in edit mode you are able to see the transforms of you're objects. There is a global reset on ui, but if you want to reset specific channels, those are in the right click menus. No way to select transformations nor copy/paste them.

While in stagemanager this functionality is completely missing, you supposed to get into and find your transforms on numbered tabs....

If you delete an input of the edit its going to error until the end of the time, only way to stop it to find the missing geo or anything with same name, add back, clear selected edits, and remove it afterwards.

There should be a button to remove not-connected geometry, and have a mode where i can see every transforms, even the not connected ones too, maybe have them greyed out

Hi I agree with you guys

Did you already submit your requests/concerns above to the sidefx-team?
I find the support in the bug/feature request form very good.

Tom

i also agree with all of you, solaris need to be improve the layout tools

Yeah i wrote them again though i think its not just some bugs here and there(though have those as as well), but a fundamental redesign of the whole process.

Siavash states he made a ticket in 2022 how the secure selection is always on for stage manager, i told them again that specific bug too, but so far the answer from devs was that having the secure selection ON by default makes lot of users confused first. Replied them how the secure selection button in stage manager doesn't do anything at all since 2019. Now waiting for the answer....

They also said: "I'm cautiously optimistic that some improvements will get released in the near-ish future" which doesn't really sound that great to me.

Until a full redesign of the Layout LOP eventually happens I’ll use a hacky workflow where I export usd created with the Component Builder to Blender. As long as the components have a usd preview shader the textures will show in Blender as well.

I then convert every asset to a collection (there’s a third party batch script for this), instance them and do the layout just by shift+d duplicating. Export the scene back to Houdini and then replace all prims with point instances pointing to the original components deriving the prototype name from names of the meshes.
Advantages to this is Blender is fab for just manipulating stuff with a fluent UI. And it’s pretty easy to update/replace the prototypes later in the project, which isn’t the case with the Layout LOP.

Yeah used to use a similar method in maya where i export lowres alembic proxies and then replace them using the @path and intrinsic transforms...

But it is kind of ridicolous to have an extra two extra steps before i could have a render preview when i could do the same with live render if just houdini would allow me move things around...

We hear you, we're disappointed with where things are at too.

There isn't really much more to say that would satisfy the frustrations. We expect to make progress over each of the coming releases; most (if not all) of the problems mention above are on our road maps. Bear with us for now, and please keep logging issues.

We hope the re-factoring and fixes will be worth the wait.

Hey hey! Thanks for the answer!
Im happy to hear at least you guys are aware of the situation, because i really had the feeling that you did not.

I could go on what would i expect from layout editing, but i guess you guys have ideas too,l so im just looking forward to what they are.

Cheers

Yes, very heartening to get a response from SideFX.

I'd like to add that while the RFE system is objectively great, and I love how much SideFX actually listens to them, I would like to see a little less dependence on the RFE to address tools like the Layout LOP.

I had posted a raft of issues I had with the Layout LOP back in August 2022 - here:
https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/86121/ [www.sidefx.com]

I was requested, by SideFX, to RFE that list. When I put in the RFE, the response was that they could not submit multiple requests in one form, and I was told to separate each one into a separate RFE (and the RFE was rejected).

At this point, I think that it's fair to say that there's too much onus and effort on the user to address basic, glaring issues that should be addressed by SideFX themselves (even though I did separate them into individual RFEs).