MartybNz
Vfx tanking - nope. What makes you think that?

VR is just part of the games industry which will grow regardless of VR.

Footnote to your post:

Yes, games will continue to grow but not independent of VR, some facts: Game companies are up sampling talent from feature film VFX. Consoles peaked last year. Growth continues strong in mobile games. VR and AR are pushing growth in both sectors. Facebook purchased Oculus VR for $2 billion.

Yup - heard all the same stuff for 3d tv. This was before Avatar was successful, all charts, dollars, facts, investments were shown that this was it!! Yet, not much of those 3d tvs are being promoted these days.

Hope it works but the industry is a hype machine for the new shiny. No doubt you can make money but in the end it's about people telling stories to other people, camp fire optional.

MartybNz
Yup - heard all the same stuff for 3d tv. This was before Avatar was successful, all charts, dollars, facts, investments were shown that this was it!! Yet, not much of those 3d tvs are being promoted these days.

Hope it works but the industry is a hype machine for the new shiny. No doubt you can make money but in the end it's about people telling stories to other people, camp fire optional.

I believed 3D tv would not take off but for a different reason. We were one of the first to experiment with 3D projection using circular polarized glasses in the late 1980s. The application was battlefield command and control. The technology worked but there was a problem. Many of the soldiers that we exposed the technology too developed persistent headaches after use of the technology for long periods of time. The project was canceled as a result. When the 3D tv started to be sold, they used the same approach, but vastly less expensive due to use of new technology.

Apparently, during testing the manufacturers of these 3D tv units observed the same exact problems since the units came with warnings. A secondary problem is that some people could not see the 3D effect, which was generally due to age related presbyopia, which affects the flexibility of the lens of the human eye due to AGEs, i.e. advanced glycation end-products, which irreversibly bind proximate amino groups of the lens optically transparent crystallin proteins. I discovered this later while designing therapeutic drugs, which cleave AGEs to treat hypertension.

FVGDOTCOM
Next time you open Maya or Houdini when looking at their viewports remember, there are no camera “safe” areas in virtual reality applications. Technology is designed for a specific purpose.

And your point / the point of this thread is?

digitallysane

FVGDOTCOM
Next time you open Maya or Houdini when looking at their viewports remember, there are no camera “safe” areas in virtual reality applications. Technology is designed for a specific purpose.

And your point / the point of this thread is?

Originally, current 3D platforms need to level up to VR to address the needs of VR.

Quite generic, I would say.

digitallysane
Quite generic, I would say.

Not from my view. The topic debate was useful to me as it delved into the rationale for doing so, or not (i.e. leveling up to VR). I personally want to address some of the points raised as I will face these points in the market space.

Fair enough.

Just be aware that most of the points you make about VFX industry in general, and SideFX in particular, are mostly missing the point and/or inaccurate.

Most of those posts are a very clear case of opinions which you insist to be taken as facts.

digitallysane
Fair enough.

Just be aware that most of the points you make about VFX industry in general, and SideFX in particular, are mostly missing the point and/or inaccurate.

Most of those posts are a very clear case of opinions which you insist to be taken as facts.

It would be helpful if you could elaborate so I can understand your points? As an example, if the VFX industry is as it seems (in poor condition), it does not bode well for new product introduction.

So I would be pleased to be disproved. If you can provide references to your points this would be very useful. Without references the information is not too useful. Again, very specifically, I sincerely would like to hear why SideFx is doing great and the VFX industry is prospering with high growth.

Here is an additional reference, which puts the current VFX industry in not good health:

http://deadline.com/2013/06/produced-by-conference-pros-forecast-the-future-of-vfx-post-rhythm-hues-516679/ [deadline.com]

This one is even worse:

https://www.fxguide.com/quicktakes/vfx-in-los-angeles-100-hour-weeks-homeless/ [fxguide.com]

Something is very wrong with the VFX industry. Please explain otherwise.

Note, these are not my opinions, this threads points are widely discussed on the Internet.

The bottom line relative to this entire thread and as far as I am concerned is artists should not have to work 100 hour weeks to get their work done and make a living. This tells me the tools need to change. There is a parallel to the Electronic Design Automation (EDA) industry as I started this thread. FVG intends to introduce VFX design automation, which will enable artists to do their creative work cheaper, better and faster. This will act as a counter balance to what appears to be predatory practices in the VFX industry. Initially we are layering on top of existing platforms, which include Houdini, Autodesk Maya and Autodesk Max. This is an interim approach to bootstrap our Behavioral Visual Effects Synthesis technology (BFX). We do not intend to be at the mercy of other companies. I will make sure that independent artists get high discounts on FVG BFX licenses and more so when the Autodesk and SideFx technologies are no longer needed to backend FVG BFX.

VR

Lars Wood

FVGDOTCOM
If you can provide references to your points this would be very useful. Without references the information is not too useful.

Again, what you are providing are not “references”, but articles. Opinions that insist only on one facet of an industry and exploit it in sensationalist ways.

FVGDOTCOM
Again, very specifically, I sincerely would like to hear why SideFx is doing great and the VFX industry is prospering with high growth.

If you've been a long time Houdini user, you'd know. Sometimes the only thing you need is observation, not references. It can be seen quite clearly from everything they're doing that SESI is doing better now than they did 5 years ago, for example.

FVGDOTCOM
Here is an additional reference, which puts the current VFX industry in not good health:
http://deadline.com/2013/06/produced-by-conference-pros-forecast-the-future-of-vfx-post-rhythm-hues-516679/ [deadline.com]
This one is even worse:
https://www.fxguide.com/quicktakes/vfx-in-los-angeles-100-hour-weeks-homeless/ [fxguide.com]
Something is very wrong with the VFX industry. Please explain otherwise.

Those are not references.
Something is wrong with every industry. It's not like VFX is a gate to heaven on Earth.
VFX is maturing. RnH went bankrupt because it was badly managed. In a healthy ecosystem some companies will go bankrupt, nothing wrong with that.
Why not point to articles about ILM, Framestore etc? Why you and others insist on talking about the guys who went under (like it's some kind of injustice) and purposely neglect to see the ones that are doing very well. Why is London's Soho such a big contributor to UK's economy if things are so bad?

FVGDOTCOM
The bottom line relative to this entire thread and as far as I am concerned is artists should not have to work 100 hour weeks to get their work done and make a living. This tells me the tools need to change.

This has absolutely nothing to do with tools. At most, it's a social problem. The main reason is not the tools, it's that the field is overpopulated (and more people are coming in, daily). Take away 50% of the available workforce in VFX and a lot of the problems will magically vanish.

FVGDOTCOM
This is an interim approach to bootstrap our Behavioral Visual Effects Synthesis technology (BFX). We do not intend to be at the mercy of other companies. I will make sure that independent artists get high discounts on FVG BFX licenses and more so when the Autodesk and SideFx technologies are no longer needed to backend FVG BFX.

Nice try, but please do your advertising somewhere else, not on SideFX's site. Do you have something to say that's directly related to Houdini? (and I don't mean “use my tools instead of Houdini”).

digitallysane

FVGDOTCOM
If you can provide references to your points this would be very useful. Without references the information is not too useful.

Again, what you are providing are not “references”, but articles. Opinions that insist only on one facet of an industry and exploit it in sensationalist ways.

FVGDOTCOM
Again, very specifically, I sincerely would like to hear why SideFx is doing great and the VFX industry is prospering with high growth.

If you've been a long time Houdini user, you'd know. Sometimes the only thing you need is observation, not references. It can be seen quite clearly from everything they're doing that SESI is doing better now than they did 5 years ago, for example.

FVGDOTCOM
Here is an additional reference, which puts the current VFX industry in not good health:
http://deadline.com/2013/06/produced-by-conference-pros-forecast-the-future-of-vfx-post-rhythm-hues-516679/ [deadline.com]
This one is even worse:
https://www.fxguide.com/quicktakes/vfx-in-los-angeles-100-hour-weeks-homeless/ [fxguide.com]
Something is very wrong with the VFX industry. Please explain otherwise.

Those are not references.
Something is wrong with every industry. It's not like VFX is a gate to heaven on Earth.
VFX is maturing. RnH went bankrupt because it was badly managed. In a healthy ecosystem some companies will go bankrupt, nothing wrong with that.
Why not point to articles about ILM, Framestore etc? Why you and others insist on talking about the guys who went under (like it's some kind of injustice) and purposely neglect to see the ones that are doing very well. Why is London's Soho such a big contributor to UK's economy if things are so bad?

FVGDOTCOM
The bottom line relative to this entire thread and as far as I am concerned is artists should not have to work 100 hour weeks to get their work done and make a living. This tells me the tools need to change.

This has absolutely nothing to do with tools. At most, it's a social problem. The main reason is not the tools, it's that the field is overpopulated (and more people are coming in, daily). Take away 50% of the available workforce in VFX and a lot of the problems will magically vanish.

FVGDOTCOM
This is an interim approach to bootstrap our Behavioral Visual Effects Synthesis technology (BFX). We do not intend to be at the mercy of other companies. I will make sure that independent artists get high discounts on FVG BFX licenses and more so when the Autodesk and SideFx technologies are no longer needed to backend FVG BFX.

Nice try, but please do your advertising somewhere else, not on SideFX's site. Do you have something to say that's directly related to Houdini? (and I don't mean “use my tools instead of Houdini”).

Thanks for your input, all information is extremely valuable to me, especially negative information. All positive feedback is of very limited value. I appreciate you taking the time to respond in detail.

VR

Lars Wood

I think you'll find that Houdini has been “levelling” up consistently for the last two decades. Sesi is better positioned than most to cater for the VR industry.

I'm sure you must recognise that, as you have the Sidefx reel on your own web site(!) - which has incidentally my and lots of other peoples work on it. That is generally not considered good form.

I'm sure you don't mean any harm - but your caustic attitude is easily mistaken for arrogance which doesn't go very around here. i don't think anyone minds critique, but try and “level up” and be a little more constructive. There's some very smart people on this forum who are happy to share. I think you might just be winding people up the wrong way..

paul
I think you'll find that Houdini has been “levelling” up consistently for the last two decades. Sesi is better positioned than most to cater for the VR industry.

I'm sure you must recognise that, as you have the Sidefx reel on your own web site(!) - which has incidentally my and lots of other peoples work on it. That is generally not considered good form.

I'm sure you don't mean any harm - but your caustic attitude is easily mistaken for arrogance which doesn't go very around here. i don't think anyone minds critique, but try and “level up” and be a little more constructive. There's some very smart people on this forum who are happy to share. I think you might just be winding people up the wrong way..

The html embeded link to the Houdini demo video reel is shareable from Vimeo, which indicates it's meant to be shared. The Houdini demo reel is/was also prominently credited to Sidefx. The page you refer to makes clear the Vimeo shared video links are there as they are of general VFX interest. The Autodesk Maya demo reel and several others are also shared there. If you don't want it to be shared you can restrict it including domains that can share it on Vimeo. This link contains directions: https://vimeo.com/help/faq/managing-your-videos/privacy-settings [vimeo.com]

Regarding, SideFx leveling up, as Riddick said, “if you say so”. I would say spending 100 hour work weeks requires fundamental change through automation. The Semiconductor industry used the procedural design approach years ago resulting in similar workflow results. Logic synthesis now dominates those workflows. Those companies that offered the procedural design technologies are gone and replaced by logic synthesis companies, which you can read at FVG.COM or web search.

If you are not familiar with Riddick here is the link to the YouTube shared clip (one of my favorite sci fi movies, great VFX for its time period): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71UpLRsQDsc [youtube.com]

VR

Lars Wood

FVGDOTCOM
Indeed, if I remember correctly, SideFx had to take a loan for 1.5 million dollars to develop Houdini 15.

Wherever you read that, feel free to now question all their past and future content.

halfdan

FVGDOTCOM
Indeed, if I remember correctly, SideFx had to take a loan for 1.5 million dollars to develop Houdini 15.

Wherever you read that, feel free to now question all their past and future content.

Roger That: http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=602&Itemid=55 [sidefx.com]

FVGDOTCOM

halfdan

FVGDOTCOM
Indeed, if I remember correctly, SideFx had to take a loan for 1.5 million dollars to develop Houdini 15.

Wherever you read that, feel free to now question all their past and future content.

Roger That: http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=602&Itemid=55 [sidefx.com]

Great way to make yourself credible, pointing to a link from 9 years ago and saying it applies to Houdini 15.

FVGDOTCOM

halfdan
Wherever you read that, feel free to now question all their past and future content.

Ok, http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=602&Itemid=55 [sidefx.com]

“Toronto: March 6, 2007”

That's from over 9 years ago. Houdini 15.0 was released last year, after about a nine month development cycle.

digitallysane

FVGDOTCOM

halfdan

FVGDOTCOM
Indeed, if I remember correctly, SideFx had to take a loan for 1.5 million dollars to develop Houdini 15.

Wherever you read that, feel free to now question all their past and future content.

Roger That: http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=602&Itemid=55 [sidefx.com]

Great way to make yourself credible, pointing to a link from 7 years ago and saying it applies to Houdini 15.

As I caveated in the original post, “if I remembered correctly”, my bad.

FVGDOTCOM
As I caveated in the original post, if I remembered correctly.

That didn't seems to stop you from posting the Roger that thing.

digitallysane

FVGDOTCOM
As I caveated in the original post, if I remembered correctly.

That didn't seems to stop you from posting the Roger that thing.

Ok, roger that, same thing. Although I was being a tad sarcastic, which was wrong ops: (although it would have been a great come back if I was right, oh well can't win them all). Seriously, I generally avoid sarcasm. The experience with being shopped by SideFx head of R&D was unsettling to me.

Notwithstanding, this forum has been a great source of information and guidance. Together with a lot of other contacts and discussions it has shaped our strategy, which has changed as a result.

VR

Lars Wood