I already commented on some problems with using Houdini as a modeler in my previous threads here and on odforce (with pictures). I would just like to see a timelapse video of someone modeling something worthvile looking at in Houdini.

My guess is there is 0 such videos. Why? becouse they would be too long (sarcasm).

The only real problem i see in Houdini generaly is user interaction, and i already commented how i would try to solve it (UI op context). There is a thread on scripting interfaces… If Houdini is procedural why not make logic and drawing a op context?

BTW…This is how a head model looks in Houdini. Just some trivia. Notice the first op…

Took too much time, too many right clicks. Still felt good somehow.

el_diablo
I already commented on some problems with using Houdini as a modeler in my previous threads here and on odforce (with pictures). I would just like to see a timelapse video of someone modeling something worthvile looking at in Houdini.

My guess is there is 0 such videos. Why? becouse they would be too long (sarcasm).

The only real problem i see in Houdini generaly is user interaction, and i already commented how i would try to solve it (UI op context). There is a thread on scripting interfaces… If Houdini is procedural why not make logic and drawing a op context?

I am agree user interaction for task like modelling is one of the weak parts of Houdini.
It is designed for other types of user interaction.
But with a good and easy way to control the viewport, scripting ui, be able to create tools, like the bone tool, dynamic parenting tool, etc .. using scripting or even better using nodes, this will solve the problem because the foundation is there it needs only to improve the user interaction layer.

ust found this thread and thought i`d add my tuppence worth.. .

ive come through 3ds max, lightwave and maya in professional use as a modeller… and nothing, in my opinion comes close to Houdinis modeling capability.. yes, as a polymodeller.. all those fancy tools seem somewhat redundant to houdinis simplicity and elegance. plus. if youre careful, you can polymodel almost completely procedurally on certain projects, i`d like to see any other package do that..

as for user interaction.. . i find houdini fantastic in this aspect.. much more so than maya particularly.. i dont understand where the issues with interaction are.. its so damn quick…

hotkeys to swap geometry selections, grow selections, edge loops, and i love the `driving/steering` of the primitive selections etc, the tab menu and last used tools menu are genius.. makes mayas hotbox look like a stone age tool..

best 3D package modelling tool ive used (ive not really used the zbrush/mudbox school of tools yet tho)


in case youre interested theres a few models on my site (i`m not the greatest modeler in the world mind you)

www.symbiont-design.com/3d.htm

all but the house thing (which is old) were done in houdini.


incidentally, ive attached an image of a good way to work in subD in houdini just for interest..

template output is set to smooth shaded and current operator is set to wireframe. add a null and your subd at the end of the chain and work upstream from this. then you can assign the subd node to a group where you can easily toggle teh template flag on and off, regardless of where in teh chain you are working.

admitteldy it will only show you the output at the very end of the chain, but isnt this what you usually want? its what you get from the other pakages as youre always working at the end of your chain. dynamic subd on any operator would i guess be cool, but imo a little unnecessary as its so easy to do what you want anyway.

spaceboyzero
best 3D package modelling tool ive used (ive not really used the zbrush/mudbox school of tools yet tho)

Glad to see a modeller feel comfortable with houdini.
And yes the subd workflow you are using is the same I use, when you are used to it, and with a scrupt to automate thesetup is very easy and intuitive

It seems to me that those who are dissatisfied with Houdini's modeling capabilities are not really leveraging the power that comes from a procedural workflow.

For example, I am currently working on developing an HDA to build a parameterized head. The idea is to strategically plan each node in the modeling network using L-Systems and such so that a side effect (no pun intended) is a model whose every key landmark can be adjusted interactively with sliders. Think of the instructions given to forensic sketch artist in order to visualize the tool in action - “wider nose here, higher forehead, higher cheekbones…” - The idea is to create a virtual Mr. Potato Head of sorts that would allow for a wide range of combination and permutations of facial features. Not only would I then be able to use this as a tool for quickly exploring character design ideas by interactively varying facial physiognamy and proportion, but I would have the added benefit of randomizing these values on a per copy basis using the copy SOP in order to populate a scene with distinctly unique individuals.

Viewed in this light, the time savings is relative - while I don't doubt that the planning involved at the outset makes this a much slower process than if I were modeling directly in Maya, Silo or ZBrush, the gains, when scaling up the production, are immesurable.This intial time expense up front, that, however, pays huge dividends further down the line, seems to be a general trend with Houdini, which if you ask me, is an essential feature when you consider the ever-increasing demands placed on productions for faster turnarounds. This simple idea is what will allow small boutique shops to compete with the big guys. A simple tool built today can be re-used and scaled up to great effect at some point in the future.

This being said, there are indeed several tools that are conscpicuosly absent from Houdini, which are essential to my modeling workflow. In particular I simply can't do without the ability to select edge rings and subsequently sliding them from center or splitting them with an arbitrary number of equi-distant edge loops. I am also lost without a “spin edge/face” operator in order to control edge flow. It occurs to me however, that even Maya did not come with these modeling tools out of the box, rather they were developed by the user community via mel-scripts or plugins - MJ Polytools, in particular comes to mind as a superlative extension of Maya's lackluster base modeling tools. More recently, third party developers such as DRaster, with their set of NEX tools, have breathed new life into this stagnant app with very carefully thought-out modeling workflow tools that go as far as completely overhauling the native interface and creating entirely new open GL feedback for single-click modeling operations.

The answer it seems then, is not for SESI to attempt to try to predict and satisfy the variagated needs and desires of every individual, but rather create an API that is easily accessible so that others can enhance and extend according to their personal preferences. Houdini 9 has taken a step in the right direction by making Python the universal scripting language, but I do think that more effort is required on educating the base user as to how to go about writing his/her own tools via this API. I am excited because it seems that with the launch of H9, there has been a concerted effort on creating more educational resources for its user base, but I think it would be equally wise to create more resources aimed at developers so that they can address what they view as shortcomings in the application in its current state.

mmontoya
splitting them with an arbitrary number of equi-distant edge loops. I am also lost without a “spin edge/face” operator in order to control edge flow.

edge divide and edge flip?

Agree it needs an edge slide… hence i wrote my own. Needs adding to the edit sop though.

Actually, I'm embarassed to admit that, in fact, the Polysplit SOP is far more complete than I had given it credit. The lesson learned is to always check help cards - you never know what treasures you may find there.

Not only does the Polysplit SOP provide the means for splitting an edge loop - simply click once along the edge you wish to split and right click to exit the tool - but it provides a very simple syntax for sliding this newly created loop with “aeb:%” Where a is the number of the primitive, e stands for “edge” and b is the edge of that primitive (for quads it will range from 0-3) and % is a float value from 0 - 1 representing the percent of that edge's overall distance.

This is where it really gets interesting - try setting the % value with an expression such as `(sin($F)+1)/2` (the addition and division is simply to get the return values in the range 0 - 1) and watch with satisfaction as your entire geometry wiggles back and forth along the newly created loop. Try doing this in any other package!

After discovering this jucy tidbit, I'm convinced that the equivalent of the “spin edge” function is hiding out within some other SOP… Back to the helpcards!

Simon - would you mind sharing with the community how to go about rolling your own SOP? Or at least point us to the proper resources? I know how to write a SOP in VEX (such as the mountain SOP) that manipulates points, but I've got no clue how to proceed for actually manipulating and modifying the topology (poly splits and such). I think many out there would appreciate your effort. Hell, if you feel real inspired and want to be a rock star, upload a tutorial to Houdini learning! You'll be assured at least one fan!

Hi Simon - no need to reply to my request above… (note to self: a little legwork will answer 90% of all simple questions). :wink:

For those of you wishing to write your own tools http://odforce.net/wiki/index.php/HDK [odforce.net] is a great place to start.

Simon also has generously offered many examples for download on his site http://www.houdinitools.com/ [houdinitools.com]

Excellent work, Simon - very impressive. The Flex Deformer Asset, in particular, looks killer!

You should still check out the edge flip sop….. :wink:

The flex stuff has mostly been made redundant by the new muscle system in Houdini. Its still an interesting project though, it shows how far you can push vex…

Thanks Simon, that's exactly what I was looking for! With that sorted out, I really can't think of a reason why you wouldn't choose to model in Houdini. What's not to like about having real (that is, non destructive) history?!!!

Wow, this thread got heated quick. Way to rip Reggie apart! Glad it simmered down.

What I'd really love to see Houdini improve is the viewport responsiveness. It is greatly improved from H8 but its still a bit slow. When I model I like to work in the viewport which is easily enough done in Maya, but Houdini gets chuggy. That's just my experience.

There are lots of areas where Houdini needs to be updated when it comes to Modeling. Viewport interactivity being one of them. I don’t think that having faster non procedural modelling will be contra-productive to the procedural, quite the opposite. The Edit SOP itself could be more procedural for instance if every stroke could be recorded, something like a history list inside the non procedural operators so that destructive tweaking could be audit and re-doable. The curve SOP could be combined with the Add SOP to allow for easier point editing. Stuff like that. At this point I think Houdini´s viewport philosophy should be redesigned from the ground up and perhaps SideFX should team up with the Silo or Nex team to design a new/ faster workflow.

Just thoughts…. And I’m always repeating myself

Simon, is there any way to use these SOPs with the latest Houdini build 9.1.179 as I get a DSO error when loading Houdini saying file was intended for a different Houdini version.

Do I need to re compile these to work, if so do I have to grab a C compiler for the task?

Thanks, Nic.

I have compiled versions on the site for H9.1.124 they sometimes work with H9.1.179. If not then yes you'll need to recompile. Make sure you have the latest source code though as a number of things have changed between H8 and H9.
I'll post new compiles when H9.5 is out.

There's more info on compiling here:
http://odforce.net/wiki/index.php/HDKFrequentlyAskedQuestions [odforce.net]

What seems missing, at least to my limited knowledge of Houdini, are better/more component selection tools.
Tools concerning loop selections, pre-selection highlighting, boundaries, brush picking etc.

Some of that is there but there is plenty of room for improvement. Many of us would like to see preselection highlighting.
There is already some basic loop selection. Just hit “l”
There a brush selection mode, that could be improved too.

How about support for vertex normals…. it is very frustrating working within the constraints of point normals and tools for normal management.

It would also be very nice for there to be the concept of borders/ shells for uvs. (does anyone know how to visualize uv borders in in the uv and 3d viewport?)

Now mantra supports vertex normals maybe its coming, but its a big change I suspect. I would bet Sesi have thought about it and its on a list somewhere…

As for visualising UV borders I think that would be a great rfe.

I stuck colour coding uv borders in for my uvunwrap tool, I don't think its that hard to impliment in a sop, maybe its even possible to roll an asset to do this with the existing tool set, have to think about that, food for thought.

Yeh the border edges display is very useful in maya. Not to mention uv moveNsew, uv relax, uvUnfold, Uv Lattice…

ps. RFE for the UVquickshade to add image repeat option, because when uving I will go back and forth between looking at a large grid for the overall flow of the uv's then go to a finer grid to tweak small anomalies.