I've never really gotten to grips with Mantra, as i ‘m more accustomed to Lightwave, Fprime and MR for my rendering. (So i plan to do some comparisons with various renderers)

1)Is there any clear instructions on how to get Mental Ray standalone 3.6a to work with Houdini 9.1?

2)I’ve just downloaded and installed 3Delight 7.0 and received my license,
I have tracked down this snippet of info:

“Integration in Houdini is substantially improved by letting Houdini know that 3Delight is the preferred RenderMan renderer. This is done by setting the HOUDINI_DEFAULT_RIB_RENDERER environment variable to ‘3Delight7.0’. This variable will instruct Houdini to use 3delight for shader compilation and for rendering, and also provides relevant default properties for the RIB output driver.”

Exactly where do i find the “HOUDINI_DEFAULT_RIB_RENDERER environment variable” to set it as above? (I'm running Windows x64 at this stage) It would be nice to have a much clear path for setting up 3rd party renderer's, such as those listed.

http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=167&Itemid=307 [sidefx.com]


Thanks for any advice on the subject..
PS. I notice in the Rnederman ROP 3Delight 6.5 is an option, but not 7.0.
Also is there a current plugin for Maxwell Render available?

I haven't used 3delight or Maxwell with Houdini yet, but;

Freakish
Exactly where do i find the “HOUDINI_DEFAULT_RIB_RENDERER environment variable” to set it as above?

My computer -> properties -> advanced -> environment variables.

Freakish
Also is there a current plugin for Maxwell Render available?

Search for Maxwell toolkit in the Houdini Exchange. (in the menu above)
In fact with any luck it's on the exchange front page at the moment.

eetu.

eetu
I haven't used 3delight or Maxwell with Houdini yet, but;

My computer -> properties -> advanced -> environment variables.

Yeah i wondered if it meant the Windows Environment Variables, but 1) the Houdini_Default_Renderer tag doesn't exist. and 2) The manual quotes,
"The list of renderer's can be inferred by looking at the $HH/soho directory, and scanning the files.

I have no idea of what or where the $HH/soho directory is but Windows search failes to find it. So far the detailed explanations leave a lot to be desired. Cannot believe their is not a Wiki page or something that deals with this.

Anyone who has any clear concise steps, please let me know.
As I'm getting nowhere fast.

Freakish
Also is there a current plugin for Maxwell Render available?

Search for Maxwell toolkit in the Houdini Exchange. (in the menu above)
In fact with any luck it's on the exchange front page at the moment.

eetu.

Thanks i did, it mentions something about emailing an address for a DSO or it won't work. (But i will do so) It appears Houdini's render support with third parties is lacking behind the others, badly…. But thanks for the response.

SESI assumes that someone willing to work with external renderer is familiar with Houdini at least in such extent to know what $HH/soho means, or how to set environmental variable. What is, as we see, too optimistic .

My advise is to forget for now about soho directory. There are python modules there which are responsible for managing all renderers Houdini is capable to use. Good tip for advance users.

As to 3delight or PRMan *all you have to do is set variable mentioned above. If your render environment is set properly (all these ~RATTREE, ~3DELIGHT_HOME, PATH etc), Houdini will work with them fluently.

Note that standard Houdini lights are also PRMan lights, you don't have to use PRMan light's shaders.

HTH,
sy.

Here's another option;

1)create a rib renderer in out network.
2) select rib
3) go to command and click on browser(arrow and page)
4) browse to prman.exe
5) select and saves as permenant default.

don't forget to enable mplay display for prman.

You can install the driver using the proto_install command line tool.

SYmek
SESI assumes that someone willing to work with external renderer is familiar with Houdini at least in such extent to know what $HH/soho means, or how to set environmental variable. What is, as we see, too optimistic .

HTH,
sy.

Yes, and as i see it in the last few years, SESI has spent a lot of time in making the interface, documentation and everything else including Apprentice and HD version to appeal to a broader market to try and entice smaller companies into using Houdini over Maya, and to a lesser extent XSI. (They even promote a lot of training material via Digital Tutors etc, aimed at the newer SESI market, which is not just TD's anymore)

XSI now has a direct instant, easy connection to 3Delight, Maxwell Render and many other renderers, this is the trend for the industry…. Making Houdini rendering step this convoluted and not having at least a simple Wiki page explaining step by step, makes XSI and 3Delight look a whole lot more attractive on the rendering side still… (especially to the market SESI seems to want these days)

PS this is an observation more than anything, I will spend some more time getting 3Delight going, but for my needs Mantra is showing to be about as popular as everybody elses internal render engine (Aka, Max, Maya etc, which all adpoted MR eventually)

Adding options like FBX, means i can spend more time in Houdini, but perhaps not rendering with it… I use Houdini for specific tasks and my knowledge of Houdini's technical ins and outs are not not great, but it's the rendering that always seems to let Houdini down for me.

With Maya i have 3Delight, PRMan and Mental Ray, without the need to post a message on a message forum….. Welcome to 2008 SESI….

PS. Havana thanks i will give it a shot.
Edit: And yep that was pretty easy and did work, setting the environment variable, which i assume is done via command line by using something like Hconfig (I haven't got that far yet) would just allow me to type “renderdl”
instead of having to supply the whole path, as i just did than.. But thanks.. I will now delve deeper into it, now that i have it working.

http://www.google.ca/search?num=30&hl=en&safe=off&q=create+environment+variable+windows&btnG=Search&meta= [google.ca]

from the first link on that page:
Open Control Panel-Performance and Maintenance-System (or right-click on My Computer and choose “Properties”). In the box that opens, click the “Advanced” tab to obtain the dialog box shown below. Next, click the button “Environment Variables”.

click NEW
variable name : HOUDINI_DEFAULT_RIB_RENDERER
variable value : C:\yourPath\toRenderer\myRenderman.exe

mantra holds it's own against prman just fine…the reason that maya and max added mental ray is because the default renderers in those apps are criminally bad…maya's in particular.

Thanks, as i said i do know how to create a window environment variable, it was just unclear if that was what was meant in the installation manuals or wiki. It gave the impression it was a Houdini variable, not a windows one. Regardless i got it to work just as well, from the technique mentioned by Havana.. (And i will be moving to a new Linux distro soon anyway)

mantra holds it's own against prman just fine…the reason that maya and max added mental ray is because the default renderers in those apps are criminally bad…maya's in particular.

Well i have no doubt that Mantra is capable, it's just me who does not have the time to get the most out of it, however i must say in the 10 seconds I've used 3Delight, I'm already much happier with the speed of rendering.

Regardless the trend is towards external renderer's as choices, 3Delight and Mental Ray, because of their market dominance and feature set. Maya and Max etc, could never keep up with the likes of Lightwave, so they had to buy their way into the rendering, it makes sense because Autodesk and Softimage can concentrate on core tools like Animation and FX, rather than needing to upgrade the renderer at the same time. With advances like MetaMill etc, it's likely that SESI will have a hard time keeping pace with Mental Images and Autodesk at the same time…

Personally I'd love Houdini to have an FPrime clone! Than it would be sweet, sweet for realtime feedback.

Anyway….

Getting back OT…. I have tried installing the shader.otl (from 3Delight/shaders) into the digital asset library. This seems to do something, but i get no updated materials under Renderman or anywhere else…. Is there something else i need to do apart from scanning them?

Where should i be looking for them to show up?

IMO, yeah - everyone wants everything The power of V-Ray and Renderman and mental ray with the (perceived) speed of FPrime; and for it to be free.

Saying something like “I'm already much happier with the speed of rendering” and being too responsive to the marketing powers of of these products tells me something about the seriousness of your rendering needs, and the depth in your research into the real benefits and problems these renderers bring. They make great demos, thats for sure.

I've used Mantra and PrMan for years and dabbled with mental ray and other various in-house rendering solutions for both regular surfaces and volumetrics, along with the likes of SunFlow and Indigo and Kerkythea and I still have the highest hopes for Mantra above all. There is virtually nothing you cannot do in Mantra, but alas there is often not a one-click-easy solution for it; which is apparently what people might desire. You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

I'd say stick with it if you can, keep pressing it I think it'll pay off.

Cheers,
Jason

I don't quite get what the problem is. I downloaded 3Delight, installed it according to it's documentation, placed the provided OTL in my otls folder (this is well documented: http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini9.1/assets/install [sidefx.com] ).
The shaders were readily available and I could render with 3Delight instantly.
As for XSI having a direct, instant connection to 3Delight… have you actually used that? Try to browse a little on xsibase.com and you'll see there are issues, and there are environment variables to be set. This is normal, but it also shows that one-click solutions for high-end workflows are not easy to do.
Houdini's interface to RenderMan-compatible renderers is very powerful, I doubt XSI will be able to match it soon, even with those plugins.

Dragos

digitallysane
I don't quite get what the problem is. I downloaded 3Delight, installed it according to it's documentation, placed the provided OTL in my otls folder (this is well documented: http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini9.1/assets/install [sidefx.com] ).
The shaders were readily available and I could render with 3Delight instantly.
As for XSI having a direct, instant connection to 3Delight… have you actually used that? Try to browse a little on xsibase.com and you'll see there are issues, and there are environment variables to be set. This is normal, but it also shows that one-click solutions for high-end workflows are not easy to do.
Houdini's interface to RenderMan-compatible renderers is very powerful, I doubt XSI will be able to match it soon, even with those plugins.
Dragos

And this is very true along with Jason's post.

The moral of that story is that it's quite easy to confuse your own ignorance with technical difficulties since they are as if two sides of the same thing .

With Maya i have 3Delight, PRMan and Mental Ray, without the need to post a message on a message forum….. Welcome to 2008 SESI….

MentalRay - does not have a support of point clouds, metaballs, volume primitives etc.
PRMan - you can't write your own pcfilter as for Mantra, no metaballs, no volume primitives with motion blur.
3Delight - ?

Is there any REAL reason to use those renderers with Houdini except pipeline issues? Do you need Brazil or maybe Turtle? Should Houdini support them too?
Good luck and welcome to 2008

Freakish, welcome to Houdini and 2008 to you too, mun!

digitallysane
I don't quite get what the problem is. I downloaded 3Delight, installed it according to it's documentation, placed the provided OTL in my otls folder (this is well documented: http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini9.1/assets/install [sidefx.com] ).
The shaders were readily available and I could render with 3Delight instantly.
s

While i can render with 3Delight, I can not get any of the 3Delight shaders to show up in the material palette…

I have also copied the otl to my Houdini/Otls folder (these didn't appear to do anything) and also added it manually (and i see the names of the shaders eg ‘Shop/Wood’ I click accept….

And after that i hoped in the Renderman section of my Material Palette i would see some 3Delight shaders called Shop/Wood (or else under a 3Delight menu) But i can't seem to get this to happen..Any suggestions would be appreciated.

PS… Thanks for your post Jason.

Personally I can't find any reason to go to another render working with houdini.
Now I am working in a studio that is complitelly MentalRay, for years, and we are finishing a project that is everything water everyewhere, all the shot is full of reflections and reflactions, and man, Mantra get nices renders in at least the same time as MentalRay, and we are working with very big scenes in HD, so if Mantra can compete with MR in raytracing and is still better with Motion blur and displacements, and is maybe the best integrated renderer when you know a little of Houdini, why to use another?
Give it a try, it's not easy at the beggining but at least as better as MR, and very very close to RMan.

Hey lisux, The Mill?

hoknamahn
Hey lisux, The Mill?

Yes, indeed!

hey freakish,

just another gentle word of encouragement urging you to persevere with mantra. i was once a prman zealot - and ran every job realise did through it. as of late - mantra has really come of age…

it's super tight integration with houdini is a breath of fresh air - even after using prman. and throw in point clouds (a real secret weapon), volumes, properties and new vex extensions - you've a killer combination! i think you'll be getting much better results per hour spent on mantra vs any 3rd party renderer right now.

good luck whichever path you choose,

paul

Thanks for the posts guys…..

Currently I love Houdini, H9 is such a nice upgrade i love the UI, unlike all the other programs, I never seem to need to click back and forth, or close 20 dialog boxes, everything i use it almost instantly available in the UI.

It's just the rendering side i would like to do some experiments with.
Mantra by default is a lot slower than i would like to see, and given time to know it's ins and outs, I'm sure i could customize it to work better for the specific given situations. However that will take time and know-how….

But at the moment if hit render for a test render, Mantra is dog SLOW compared to 3Delight. (and 3Delight isn't even using all my CPU's) However i cannot compare the advanced stuff, because i cannot get the 3Delight shaders to work with Houdini. (Only Mantra shaders)

I have written a few shaders in C, for Lightwave most of these were based on Renderman shaders, so Renderman/3Delight is something I'm interested in for shader writing experience and to further my knowledge.

Personally MR is overated for myself, however the people around me do prefer it for again the shader writing and wealth of MI shaders that can be added and made, also keep in mind upcoming ideas like MetaMill.
They also like the fact that it's used elsewhere in the pipeline.

Ideally i would like to give 3Delight, Mantra and Mental Ray a good work out for Houdini to see which is going to best suit our situation.

But given the fact that I'm having trouble getting 3Delight shaders working, I'm about ready to give up and just use Houdini to do the complex stuff and export it out to be rendered elsewhere.

Currently I do not have the amount of time i would like to sit with Houdini and really read all the docs and info and options, paths command line options etc…. So it's been a frustrating week!

Cheers, and thanks again for support and advice!

Yes, it can be frustrating but once that something clicks into place, you will probably do a lot of cool, complex stuff.

Please continue at it & post questions when you have them. Good luck!

Cheers!
steven