why did u guys make houdini so difficult to learn…eg: why do i have to type in a expression to get a helix / spiral .. what a turn off !!!

dont get me wrong … am learning it ..its a great software but then these small things keeps away a lot of ppl i know.

Houdini allows artists to do anything they want. For this to be a reality the amount of ‘black box’ features (i.e. features that just ‘do stuff’ and hide how its being done) need to be kept to a minimum. Instead Houdini makes the base level tools that work together to make features readily accessible to the user, so the user ultimately has much more flexibility and power to create.

That's kinda what Houdini is all about. SESI have began making inroads into balancing this out with new shelf tools etc. from v9 onwards, but the real power of the software still comes in learning how to put things together to create your own features..

Keep at it and eventually you'll be rewarded!

thanks for your reply and i do get your point .. houdini allows one to get to the core and tweak the smallest thing … but i believe that a few things like spiral can be a default tool and no matter if i learn it once i know i will forget it next time. “ how to make a spiral” and i have seen people forgetting it a lot of times after doing it a couple of times earlier …. and this small little thing does cause a big hindrance in learning this beauty

I understand what you're saying.

There is a twist sop that should make a nice helix for you without any expressions…

Houdini also has a lot of tools for making repetitive tasks faster.

For example, If you find yourself writing the same expression on the same node over and over then save the node as a preset. Check out the little cog-wheel menu in the parameters pane to do this.

Once you save a preset you'll always be able to find it in this same cog-wheel menu. All nodes have this as well.

Other time saving features include the Gallery and of coarse Digital Assets.

-Alan

@dean_19 : awww yeah .. it does work …after 3 nodes .. and adjusting the pivots and awwww … am sorry to compare it with the “black box” softwares again … but hey come on…make it more user friendly … things need not be so complicated !!!

@Alanw : yes thats a good tip .. to save a preset .. thanks .. will have to look it up

Why do you need expressions to make a spiral, just use a copy sop.

maxedout
why did u guys make houdini so difficult to learn…eg: why do i have to type in a expression to get a helix / spiral .. what a turn off !!!

dont get me wrong … am learning it ..its a great software but then these small things keeps away a lot of ppl i know.

I know what you mean. Personally, I think Houdini should indeed provide two workflows - the currently dominant one, where you can tweak every little detail in any way you wish, but often are forced to do things from scratch, and another workflow, with far more presets and black-box solutions for cases where you just want to put down a few nodes, hit a couple of buttons, and get something simple done really quickly and in a simple way.

We're actually working on this - you can compare Houdini 8 to the latest current version to see how far we've come. However, there's so much to do that we have no way of getting to everything at the same time.

You'll also probably find that, at least in my experience, everyone on this forum is extremely helpful and friendly, so if you need a piece of advice or an example, you'll often get several different ones right after posting a question.

I think it depends on how you approach learning Houdini . I certainly have found if you spend time to learn all the nuts and bolts it makes things so much easier.

rob

@simon : thanks for that tip on making the spiral … simple and easy

@oleg : it would be great to have a “black box” approach in houdini .. and am absolutely sure that more people will get on to it if we have something what you are proposing …. i myself got into houdini only once i saw the H9 user friendly versions .. like you said ‘one often need to work from scratch’ which keeps a lot of people away … imagine once when we will be able to use some ready made “out of box” tools and mix them up with more robust approach of building stuff .. it will get more popular.. more artists using it, more jobs for artists like me and more profits for the company !!!

Again let me just say .. you guys have a great software here but i wish more people experience the power of houdini…

@circusmonkey : yes i am sure if i spend time with this software, i will eventually master it … but i have to say that the learning curve is indeed very steep and i have felt like giving it up a lot of times .. and am sure there are people like me out there and some might have giving up. Now we could have the same approach .. but i feel …. the idea should be make it more simple and let more people experience it and not restrict to few ppl.

Dude come on, 3 nodes? Adjust the pivot? What's that…10 clicks? :wink:

I mean something like Maya may well have, what? a helix button? But I'm sure the helix button comes up with a UI with a bunch of parameters that you tweak before you get exactly what you want…probably resulting in the same number of mouse clicks. Plus the hypergraph probably drops down a few nodes, it's just that in Houdini this isn't hidden from you…plus now you can easily go back up the network and adjust parameters..

But this is part of a much bigger topic. As Oleg says, SESI have made big strides in encompassing this approach to using software also with many one click solutions in the shelf tools, so you get the best of both worlds. The helix/twist thing is just an example of Houdini having you contruct it step by step yourself, so you have much more options WHEN (not if!) the client, vfx sup, director asks you to change it!!

@circusmonkey : yes i am sure if i spend time with this software, i will eventually master it … but i have to say that the learning curve is indeed very steep and i have felt like giving it up a lot of times .. and am sure there are people like me out there and some might have giving up. Now we could have the same approach .. but i feel …. the idea should be make it more simple and let more people experience it and not restrict to few ppl.

Just think if you continue in your efforts your skills might actually be worth something.

on a side note :-

Have you tried build a tool to make a helix in Maya recently ?. Last time I looked you needed to write mel to build a simple interface let alone figure out how to build the helix.

Have you tried build a tool to make a helix in Maya recently ?. Last time I looked you needed to write mel to build a simple interface let alone figure out how to build the helix.

Hahaha! I stand corrected Lol…

Actually I've heard quite a few examples where Maya would require the user to write a mel script to achieve what could be done in Houdini with a few nodes…I guess which ap is more user friendly isn't so clear cut!

lol yeah i have noticed that when it comes to quick fixes and quick deliveries 3dsmax outperforms maya…i come from max background and so i compare with it… ofcourse it doesn't give me the scalability and the controls that houdini gives … but then its gives me a good and fast direction and with a few plugins (maybe fume or krakatoa and now the pflow - box 2) it does churn out some good stuff.

i don't mean to start with the debate as to which software is better that the other cause otherwise i wouldn't be learning houdini….but its my humble opinion that there is a huge scope to make houdini simpler

Aha! I know just what you mean! I used Max for about 4 years before I switched over to Houdini when I went to study effects about 4 1/2 years ago..so I have an affection for max. When I first switched I felt exactly the same way.

Max is a great ap for getting good results fast, but it can't deliver the bespoke solutions for ‘high-end’ effects that Houdini can. But I totally know where you're coming from.

I like the Houdini way, I wouldn't want it any other. Let max be max and maya be maya. I'm happy and comfortable here on the sunny side. 8)

If you stick to it, you too might one day enjoy finding new ways of making a spiral. How about an L-System?

@soothsayer : what a showoff … jus kidding.. but yeah its a cool trick .. which will take a while to understand

and yes each softwares have their advantages and drawbacks…love one love all

number one… I'm not big on people whining about things being hard.
If it is too hard… move on.

- with great freedom (or power) comes great responsibility

Houdini gives you the tools to make a helix. You could even create a helix tool of your own, pretty easily. You could post that to the exchange to prevent further concerns about houdini being too hard.

- If everyone could make the effect at the press of a button, it would cease to be a “special” effect.

I hope houdini doesn''t bend to the will of button click…
I'm still very much new to houdini- Still soooo much to learn.
But it is a challenge that I seek with the reward of being able to really control and harness what I am after.

Thanks SESI.

Its a work application, you need to have both speed and control.

How often does one need just a helix? Its usually something effect-specific like intertwined helices following a curve, with helix radii driven by points on the curve, or something else… for that you need control.

The speed comes from easy re-use of work… And understanding how stuff works at a low level so you can quickly and elegantly solve problems.

quinniusmaximus
number one… I'm not big on people whining about things being hard.
If it is too hard… move on.

you're hired

oky first and foremost .. no one is whining .. at-least on this thread .. the and all of us here do see the advantages of using houdini over other software and thats precisely the reason we are here … some or most of the guys here are blessed with good understanding of technical knowledge… however what about artist that are not or have difficulty in grasping the technical stuff .. are you saying “move on .. if you cant do this .. may be this is not for you … cant get helix without writing a expression !! .. go make it in other software!!… only if you want Extreme control on your helix then come here” … (btw helix is jus like a metaphor here)… and special effects in any software ..be it max or maya is never easy … when you want to do a very specific effect(which always is the case) you have to work hard on all the softwares …. so without saying much … i love houdini and I would definitely like few things made simpler … we will never ever get a software that will make a vfx shot at a click of a button !!!!