Historical Background

The Motorola 88K RISC computer processor engineered in the 1980s required hundreds of engineers to design. The 88K floating point module alone required the efforts of over 100 design engineers to develop. A few years later a new floating point processing module was designed for the 88K using electronic design automation (EDA) logic synthesis. This time only three engineers were required. Integrated circuit very large scale integration (VLSI) design is now dominated by automated logic synthesis workflows.

Although EDA initially made extensive use of graphical “procedural workflows”, this was insufficient to address the design complexity of very large scale systems, which required higher levels of design abstraction. Consequently logic synthesis emerged as a new technology to address this challenge. The productivity benefits of designing with logic synthesis has essentially replaced gate-level, i.e. procedural design for digital logic.

In the 1980s as one of the first to pioneer the use of virtual reality technology, including working with Stewart Screen to develop the first low bleed 3D projection screen material for our SGI dual head 3D simulator, I applied one of the first VPL data gloves, which we used as part of our International Space Station virtual reality simulator, so I have a deep background in both virtual reality and 3D sw and hw technology and their requirements. In this context, consider the observation:

VFX Virtual Reality Industry Challenge

When developing VFX content for virtual reality applications the old concept of VFX “shots” is no longer applicable. The solution is VFX in the large, which the Houdini user interface (as an example) is not currently designed to scale too. Houdini was designed for a different application, i.e. VFX shots. What FVG.COM is focused on is applying high level very large scale integration logic synthesis VFX content creation for virtual reality applications in games and other virtual reality applications.

Next time you open Maya or Houdini when looking at their viewports remember, there are no camera “safe” areas in virtual reality applications. Technology is designed for a specific purpose.

VR

Lars Wood

FVGDOTCOM
Next time you open Maya or Houdini when looking at their viewports remember, there are no camera “safe” areas in virtual reality applications. Technology is designed for a specific purpose.

Not sure what you mean. For example Nuke's Viewer/viewport isn't designed for VR either, but with the CaraVR toolset you can look at your output in a set of VR googles.

https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/about-us/news-awards/caravr-open-beta-announcement/ [thefoundry.co.uk]

MartybNz

FVGDOTCOM
Next time you open Maya or Houdini when looking at their viewports remember, there are no camera “safe” areas in virtual reality applications. Technology is designed for a specific purpose.

Not sure what you mean. For example Nuke's Viewer/viewport isn't designed for VR either, but with the CaraVR toolset you can look at your output in a set of VR googles.

https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/about-us/news-awards/caravr-open-beta-announcement/ [thefoundry.co.uk]

Clarifying what I am saying is that there is a huge difference between 3D and true VR content. Even though VR technology can be used with 3D the content is much different from immersive VR unless the VR is limited to 3D shots and then it's not where the VR market is headed.

Thinking from a VFX shot metric perspective, the number of shots for VR is greatly increased over current VFX for each scene as an example and the current technologies are not currently adapted to this full immersion requirement. What is necessary is VR design automation so VFX TDs can synthesize the VR scene shots, using the shot metric, from a partial specification, in the form of a few VR canonical shots, which serve as exemplars. VR VFX Design automation synthesis completes the content.

All 3d vfx will do is turn into game-like real time rendered viewport as opposed to offline rendering. There's nothing special about it that is not doable currently.

MartybNz
All 3d vfx will do is turn into game-like real time rendered viewport as opposed to offline rendering. There's nothing special about it that is not doable currently.

Wrong.

FVGDOTCOM

MartybNz
All 3d vfx will do is turn into game-like real time rendered viewport as opposed to offline rendering. There's nothing special about it that is not doable currently.

With all do respect that is completely wrong.

I have generated content for both and VR is very different. In this context the VR system I worked on was to make repairs to the International Space Station. The content is very different, it's not just a game in 3D. There are haptic influences you may not be considering and a range of other things that don't present in conventional 3D. Another example is VR for protein-protein interaction studies where haptic influences reflexively drive real-time rendered VFX.

Also VFX issues with proprioception. VR VFX is not 3D VFX.

There have been recent articles on the current state of the VFX industry, (which is not currently a prosperous industry) and how VR may be the saving wave for VFX. Yet these articles also mention a caveat, if VFX professionals can adapt to the requirements of VR. Just like in the CAD industry, some draftsman adapted to CAD but many did not. And just like with CAD or EDA, new tools are required to address the demands of new technological requirements.

So technologies that have been around since the late 80s (Houdini) and 90s (Maya) need to adapt or be supplanted by new technologies. Like generals always prepare to fight new wars using past war strategies and tactics and loose.

It's not clear what you are writing about though. If you are promoting your tools, sure it's easy to understand, do you have an example?

If you are saying VR as it stands if is not good, so is Bret Victor who says being a masked zombie is not the future of computing. If you are writing about the approach to AI being not good enough, then so did Marvin Minsky. If you are saying the system approach the only correct approach large scalable systems, then so does Alan Kay.

MartybNz
It's not clear what you are writing about though. If you are promoting your tools, sure it's easy to understand, do you have an example?

If you are saying VR as it stands if is not good, so is Bret Victor who says being a masked zombie is not the future of computing. If you are writing about the approach to AI being not good enough, then so did Marvin Minsky. If you are saying the system approach the only correct approach large scalable systems, then so does Alan Kay.

I believe I answered your question in a follow up to my post above. Notwithstanding any work we are doing, VFX tools and mindsets need to adapt since VR is not 3D. VR has much more complex large scale challenges as I sited above.

Further, these things have been done, like the work I did on the ISS many years ago, but now it's going mainstream and tools and VFX people need to “level up” or be obsolete.

Here is just one example of the challenges faced by VFX pros adapting to VR. http://uploadvr.com/pushing-the-boundaries-of-vfx-in-vr-on-a-tight-technical-budget/ [uploadvr.com]

This is just one example, there are many to be found where VFX pros are trying to do VR with existing tools. New tools are required to address these challenges, i.e. Ne Cras, Ne Cras, as Pro Counsel Quintilus Varus said when barbarians routed his legions (Latin translated: it's not like yesterday).

Yes - but everything you have written thus far is just promoting yourself. Most artists have a can-do attitude and will just work out the VR stuff themselves. In the end, the end product is the same thing; story story story supported by the high-tech equipment and skillsets.

Anyone who has been in the industry 20+ years, like many Houdini vfx artists have seen these fads many times before.

MartybNz
Yes - but everything you have written thus far is just promoting yourself. Most artists have a can-do attitude and will just work out the VR stuff themselves. In the end, the end product is the same thing; story story story supported by the high-tech equipment and skillsets.

Anyone who has been in the industry 20+ years, like many Houdini vfx artists have seen these fads many times before.

VR is not a fad and it's much different than 3D of the past, requiring new tools. It's not just me saying this, read the post from Epic games above. There are many examples. VR is projected to be a $121 billion industry by 2020 and currently VFX industry is tanking, yet VR huge investment.

And to your point on our technology, realize it is based on a new chassis for Houdini Engine and instrumentation of the Houdini VFX system. The fundamental idea is large scale design and integration of VFX. The output are still hip files and hda files that you can open and work on with Houdini.

Please read the post on VR by Epic above, we automate what they did tediously by hand and other VR capabilities.

Vfx tanking - nope. What makes you think that?

VR is just part of the games industry which will grow regardless of VR.

MartybNz
Vfx tanking - nope. What makes you think that?

VR is just part of the games industry which will grow regardless of VR.

Respectfully, you are incorrect on both counts:

VFX Industry health is very poor.

https://www.fxguide.com/featured/a-way-forward-for-the-vfx-industry/ [fxguide.com]

http://www.awn.com/blog/practical-magic-state-vfx-industry-2015-part-2-hug-vfx-artist [awn.com]

http://www.zacuto.com/end-for-the-vfx-industry [zacuto.com]

http://www.siggraph.org/discover/news/whats-wrong-visual-effects-industry [siggraph.org]

https://www.change.org/p/all-visual-effects-academy-awards-nominees-make-a-stand-for-our-industry-on-the-academy-awards-stage-this-weekend [change.org]

There is consolidation in the industry everywhere (Arnold was just purchased as you know), this is not the sign of a healthy industry. In healthy industries there is room for lots of players. Indeed, if I remember correctly, SideFx had to take a loan for 1.5 million dollars to develop Houdini 15. That amount of money is nothing, I burned through 1.5 million dollars last year on my own research.

Finally, on VR its not just for games, that is a very limited view. I don't think the work I did for NASA on the ILS VR repair system they considered a game. Nor the work I did with VR for subatomic protein-protein interaction studies for DuPont.

Please note, the industry projection of $121 billion dollars in VR by 2020 is not just for games:

http://www.gameindustry.com/editorials/eurofiles/vr-just-fun-games/ [gameindustry.com]

VR

Lars Wood

Umm you're reading the pop-press and saying that's the industry - get out of here! You're looking at the skin on a vat of boiling milk. These VR articles are very useful for VC funding, I agree.

MartybNz
Umm you're reading the pop-press and saying that's the industry - get out of here! You're looking at the skin on a vat of boiling milk. These VR articles are very useful for VC funding, I agree.

I would not consider ACM Siggraph the pop press.

“The issues that haunt the visual effects industry are more than just academic for those whose livelihoods depend on its health and stability.”

http://www.siggraph.org/discover/news/whats-wrong-visual-effects-industry [siggraph.org]

This, one of many articles, was written by Kristy Barkan who oversees the editorial and organization-specific content published on the ACM SIGGRAPH website.

“Though the bankruptcy of a VFX titan like Rhythm & Hues may be surprising to industry outsiders, it's not an errant footnote in the history of visual effects. According to the documentary ”Life After Pi,“ which chronicles the downfall of R&H, between 2003 and 2013, a total of 21 major VFX studios either closed or filed for bankruptcy.”

Ok - no one is forcing you to understand the business world.

MartybNz
Ok - no one is forcing you to understand the business world.

I do understand the business world, I have developed technologies in multiple industries and been successfully funded since 1980. Please sight some references to the contrary on your positions. I have found none myself.

Seriously, I have found nothing positive about the conventional VFX industry. Look at the revenues of SideFx as an example and they are the VFX platform leader.

So you need to talk to producers and film makers and stop reading. There is no guide book to doing business. Most likely this is not your forte so you may want to collaborate with business people to do the talking Don't worry almost every technical person can't do business properly as they always want to read about it first.

Edit: umm when you heavily edit your post, it's impossible to reply…so the above doesn't make sense anymore. With your new info - I must be wrong - you do know business!

MartybNz
So you need to talk to producers and film makers and stop reading. There is no guide book to doing business. Most likely this is not your forte so you may want to collaborate with business people to do the talking Don't worry almost every technical person can't do business properly as they always want to read about it first.

Thanks, I am fine with business acumen. What is the outlook for revenues in feature film? Can you point to any projections? My own research and the venture capital people I work with say its not of interest. A very specialized market with specialized investors. So far you have offered no references on your comments. There must be something you can reference. Its not like its top secret material. Why are there VFX subsidies?

FVGDOTCOM
Thanks, I am fine with business acumen. What is the outlook for revenues in feature film? Can you point to any projections?

You're asking an artist to run numbers:?: - please that's the business side. Anyone can read numbers but the value that should be placed in it is not worth the pixels in a post.

MartybNz

FVGDOTCOM
Thanks, I am fine with business acumen. What is the outlook for revenues in feature film? Can you point to any projections?

You're asking an artist to run numbers:?: - please that's the business side. Anyone can read numbers but the value that should be placed in it is not worth the pixels in a post.

Ok, well thanks for the discussion, we covered a lot of material.

One last point, when I had an interaction recently with the head of R&D at a relevant industry company. The only thing they cared about was the impact on licensing. If it walks like a duck, smells like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck. The VFX industry is not healthy, except perhaps for a very limited few, which is not unusual.

VR

Lars Wood