Hey Andy58 - We are all a little unaccustomed to this new situation we are in. It takes time to learn the ways of all the personality styles. I mean do you sit at work thinking “hey what everyone is saying is wonderful, I agree with that”

You should join in the discussions too. More voices to be heard the better. How do you find Houdini's animation tools or scene management?

Thanks for contributing!

Obviously the thread derailed of the animation thing… feel free to delete my post…

Constantin, i like how you spoted some UI bottleneck here, but i can't agree with the null parent thing.
There is subnetworks WITH transforms, this is a null,

but there are flaws here and here…

——–
a node put under a subnetwork, says a cube isn't auto linked to the “input 1”… well, ok pass on that… Hey we can move the subnetwork transform and this moves the cube ??? … well, ok pass on that … now create a null to parent move the subnetwork… well now the null don't tranform the cube under the subnetwork , remember ? the cube isn't auto attached to the sub network input…

This is things like this, that's not logical at all, so how we can parent / move / regroup things freely and effectively ?

——–
what's the purpose of the “tree view” the network editor putted in a tree view mode provide nearly all constantin's demands. The multi selections, the possibility to group under a transfrom group, moving nodes etc… but I note several workflow problems…

-> as we can can Copy/Past nodes we sould be able to do that in a logical manner. Today if we need to copy a node onto a subnetwork we have to select a member of that subnetwork or enter this subnetwork to Paste it.
So here is the thing, this is not logical at all to select a submember for pasting a node, OR this is not logical at all clicking onto a subnet, hitting “i” you loose any selection visual before your paste…

-> another one, when we have two pane open, one “network tree view” and one network graph view (this remind me a lot the softimage worflow) whe could use to select a subnetwork in the tree view to display the content of it on the network view… this is not what's happening…
When a network is selected we should view is parameter but showing his content in the network view ;-)

-> in short, the tree view needs to be removed, the network tree view needs to be a special case because he could not behave like a network view, this network tree view should provide additionnal mechanisms.

-> multiselection and parametters editings misses an Highlighted Mode of the common values instead of a light grey text

——–
VOPs… Am I the only one who's fighting with network tiles Lines ? I always turns having a connection line selected, and in this case the only solution is pushing the “esc” key…

Could houdini provide additionnal surface for selecting the nodes tiles by using the full empty node surface, not only the title bar…

——–

SOP tiles and connections: the right click on the minimalistycaly small down arrow to auto connect nodes is not optimal… Maybe a simple Hover on Node + TAB could auto connect the new node ?

And is there an auto “display flag” when we put new nodes by clicking this down arrow ?

——-

All this is minimal things, but every times, Softimage devs added some minimal things on the softimage workflow it turns to be a huge time saver.

Thanks for listning,
Noël

NNois
-> another one, when we have two pane open, one “network tree view” and one network graph view (this remind me a lot the softimage worflow) whe could use to select a subnetwork in the tree view to display the content of it on the network view… this is not what's happening…
When a network is selected we should view is parameter but showing his content in the network view ;-)

Is this what you're trying to get?
- Right-click on the pin icon of the “network tree view” (actually a Network View pane), and choose 1. Right-click on it again and enable “Link As Parent”
- Right-click on the pin icon of your “network graph view” (actually a Network View pane), and choose 1.
- Save your desktop

So now when you select the node's in the “network tree view”, the “network graph view” will show the child network of what's selected.

edward
Is this what you're trying to get?
- Right-click on the pin icon of the “network tree view” (actually a Network View pane), and choose 1. Right-click on it again and enable “Link As Parent”
- Right-click on the pin icon of your “network graph view” (actually a Network View pane), and choose 1.

Thanks edward, this is just what i was looking for ! so the info is missing here http://localhost:48626/basics/panes [localhost]
but in the docs too there is a mention about “auto-dive” button with tree view but not in a “network tree view”http://localhost:48626/ref/panes/treeview [localhost]

So is “link as parent” pane is the same as “auto-dive” ?

edward
Is this what you're trying to get?
- Right-click on the pin icon of the “network tree view” (actually a Network View pane), and choose 1. Right-click on it again and enable “Link As Parent”
- Right-click on the pin icon of your “network graph view” (actually a Network View pane), and choose 1.

Hi, in fact this is not working there is a bug:

A setup with 2 panes, left “network tree view” right “network view”
setted up with “link 1” and “link as parent” for the “network tree view”

If i select on the “network tree view” the right pane is reacting and diving correctly but not the opposite…
->This is working correctly on the “obj” network context
->But not at all on other context , like “Shop” or “Out” in these ones when we select a node the right pane network editor Switch back immediatly on the “OBJ” context, so not usable at all…


PS: This is working correctly with a classic “tree view” but we loose the multi select ability and other goodies…

PS2: Using the “link as parent” mode prevent display of the ultra cool SOP collums in the tree network view, annoying…

NNois
but in the docs too there is a mention about “auto-dive” button with tree view but not in a “network tree view”http://localhost:48626/ref/panes/treeview [localhost]

The auto-dive button is only for the tree view type pane, or the tree view when you hit ‘w’ in the network view.

MartybNz
If we could filter out a forum when hitting ‘View Posts Since Last Visit’ that would induce a natural delay, so a discussion can take place.

Can we RFE that please

Link's right up there on the Support menu. Go crazy

Personally, I've been wanting an upgrade to the forum software for a while now. Preferably something that marries the convenience of a mailing list with the forum way. What can I say? I prefer mailing lists, I'm just old-school that way.

There are some technical bits and pieces in the way of a straightforward upgrade, however.

MartybNz
…
You should join in the discussions too. More voices to be heard the better. How do you find Houdini's animation tools or scene management?

Thanks for contributing!

I'd love to and will. I have lots to talk about regarding the GUI, its appearance and usability. But I'd rather make a video and make it really concise. In addition to raising points I'd also like to bring some proposals into the discussion. However long that's going to take ;-)

@Halfdan: Can any of the developers say if Houdini's GUI is based on Qt?

Thanks,

Andy

Andy58
@Halfdan: Can any of the developers say if Houdini's GUI is based on Qt?

It's all home-grown. Drawn with OpenGL.

halfdan
It's all home-grown. Drawn with OpenGL.

Thanks. Time to get out that rake

BTW - does anyone miss the “Region Keys” tool in the XSI Animation Editor?

Like to quickly scale a collection of keys on different curves in value/time (with the box manipulator, possibly even with frame snapping on)?

Personally I'd stopped using the dopesheet and tended to use this more often since it also gave me key values (that I could manipulate if necessary using the same tool without reselecting).

-T

In the Channel Editor, press ‘Y’. Now you'll get a bbox around the keys for scaling.

Not in the docs as far as I could tell; found out about it when sending in an RFE for such a feature

takita
BTW - does anyone miss the “Region Keys” tool in the XSI Animation Editor?

Like to quickly scale a collection of keys on different curves in value/time (with the box manipulator, possibly even with frame snapping on)?

Personally I'd stopped using the dopesheet and tended to use this more often since it also gave me key values (that I could manipulate if necessary using the same tool without reselecting).

-T

halfdan
We're all in this together. Mmmmkay?

It would be cool at some point to hear which course Sesi wants to go for a long term goal. for example Red camera's goal was many years ago to revolutionise the digital cinema market, it did and you can still see it on the their latest products.

All users here are asking for many things, it's currently a situation of ‘squeaky wheels’ or ‘pot banging’ to get attention; the judgement of momentum change will occur at each product release.

It's rad to see organic growth from the bottom up, but is there a larger top-down-cum-big-picture view too that Sesi can hook us with too?

goldleaf
In the Channel Editor, press ‘Y’. Now you'll get a bbox around the keys for scaling.

Not in the docs as far as I could tell; found out about it when sending in an RFE for such a feature

Thanks! Though I have to say that was soo not obvious…

Definitely like the pivot though - very handy!

cheers, and thanks again

-T

I must confess I don't that fond anymore the pivot now… after a first reaction on the lines of (oh… that s nice, I can pivot wherever I want) the fact is you mostly pivot on the first or last keyframe you have selected so having to go though a step of moving it, specially when dealing with long shots with lots of keyframes it is error prone.

I would mimic XSI behaviour to be honest… having a pivot may be a good option but imho it is a bit of an overkill.

:-P

jordibares
I must confess I don't that fond anymore the pivot now… after a first reaction on the lines of (oh… that s nice, I can pivot wherever I want) the fact is you mostly pivot on the first or last keyframe you have selected so having to go though a step of moving it, specially when dealing with long shots with lots of keyframes it is error prone.
:-P

Yeah I can see how that can get old. Although I think if I'm scaling values then it's definitely useful. Maybe a key modifier (insert?) would be great for that..

cheers,

-T

As title says, one more idea. Can we have a visual representation(something like animation mixer) for the clips in the CHOPS? Let's say i have a character, and i have two short animations for him: a walk and a jump. Now i want to take the walk and at the end of it apply the jump, and maybe stretch them a little, make a simple transition etc. In XSI is very easy to do this within animation mixer IN A VISUAL MANNER. CHOPS are very powerful, but not very intuitive. So maybe implement this as a visual aid for those more artistic inclined. And the only functions witch can be accessed through visual are the timing one(stretch/extend/cycle etc). Opinions on this?

So true… we really would benefit from a visual view… the same with Animation Layers, something you can do with Chops but the integrated tool is critical.

:-P

jb

Constantin X
As title says, one more idea. Can we have a visual representation(something like animation mixer) for the clips in the CHOPS? Let's say i have a character, and i have two short animations for him: a walk and a jump. Now i want to take the walk and at the end of it apply the jump, and maybe stretch them a little, make a simple transition etc. In XSI is very easy to do this within animation mixer IN A VISUAL MANNER. CHOPS are very powerful, but not very intuitive. So maybe implement this as a visual aid for those more artistic inclined. And the only functions witch can be accessed through visual are the timing one(stretch/extend/cycle etc). Opinions on this?

All ya animators check it; tonight's daily build has a nice update to the performance of the graph editor.

Houdini 13.0.384: Improve channel graph editor rendering performance for channels with large numbers of linear() keys. In some cases, over 15x speed improvement was observed.

http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_journal&Itemid=213&page=index&journal=default [sidefx.com]

halfdan

Andy58
The Houdini community is very helpful and friendly if treated with respect to their culture. Getting an idea across in written form is not always interpreted in one certain way, that's how it evolves into a discussion where things can heat up. Especially with language and cultural differences.

Maybe I didn't spell it out quite clearly in my initial forum post, but my intention was that folks from other packages could come here and voice their ideas freely without judgement. Obviously, in this case, SI users, seeing as they have been abandoned by the curator of their software-of-choice. Now, moving forward, we'll probably rename the forum to fully embrace curious minds from other packages.

That said, it is understood that workflow in other packages is different from Houdini's. It was the intention here to attempt to figure out which differences make people hesitant to adopt Houdini as their package of choice. A big part of that is allowing new/potential users to have a clear voice as to what makes them go “wtf?” and what makes them go “that's awesome”.

If awesome, we can pat ourselves on the back and feel pleased. However, with the “wtf?” part, we'd like to see if there are ways to improve the software, without losing sight of what truly makes Houdini Houdini, and in the process make it a more attractive choice to non-users.

It's ok if the ideas are sometimes a little strange-sounding, we (SideFX) aren't just going to run off to our computers to implement them, just because they've been typed out on a forum. As with any other software endeavour, we'll be judging them based on their merit and how well they mesh into the existing architecture/system/spirit/ethos.

We will all benefit from that. There's a lot of things old-time Houdini users have gotten very much accustomed to; things which might be completely sub-optimal to begin with.

However, for that to work out, I'd like to request a little bit more understanding on our behalf, the Houdini community, and a little more civility from both sides.

So, please, from now on let's act as if we're grown-ups. We're all in this together. Mmmmkay?

Let me preface this with letting you know that I know that your friends and family know what great people you are that make Houdini.

We all know how frustrated the SI community is with what has happened. All that being made worse by people (AD) who trivialize valid concerns on a basis that is so consistent that it must be part of a manual somewhere.

Your statement is in error Mr. programmer and is the problem with Houdini as a whole.

It's not my job to learn Houdini as much as it's your job to teach Houdini Humanity.

If an artist can not intuitively animate a biped in Houdini it's a fault with the programmer.

The voluminous catalog of Houdini rigging videos on the net let me know that Houdini is a great rigger.

The lack of animation videos tell me the opposite of it's character animation.

Until I see people here stop deflecting obvious truths then I can only assume that they have not grasped the issues so there are no hopes of solving them.

Release 13 without an animation mixer is mind blowing to me.

Houdini: Great particle engine that does some other stuff too.

Until I see ownership of an obvious error I have no sympathy for perceived offense so don't bother.

This is my only post until I see a proper Mixer in release => 14 so just more of an fyi.