Just two quick questions that pop up everytime I see Houdini's UI:
1. is there a particular reason as to why the first 3 buttons here have a different look than all other buttons on the toolbars around the viewport?
2. is there also a reason why these two have different widths?

1. Obviously, these buttons are too important and determine what the viewport and all the other buttons work with.
2. It's not clear what you're talking about here at all. About the grid step? What do your drawings refer to?

From a UI-design perspective, these are both valid questions. I suspect there is no good answer to them, and they're just the way they are because that's the way they are.

You can RFE for this and hope they will address them.

Personally I hide all toolbars but if one is so inclined they can recreate these toolbars in Qt and then decorate them around the viewport either using Python panels or on top of the viewport.

Becouse this UI design is 15 years old and artist who usually have good taste and sense of easthetics avoid Houdini for any cost. Parameter pane menue is really hard to look at. UI with carve animations is a joke.

I dont gent why SideFX dont refreshu it? Rebranding and refreshing 15 yo UI produckt is a must.

This all makes me thing its very old and buggy software. Like software made 15 years ago wich dont have multithreading, support for CUDA and Open CL etc.

Its likeplaying with software made for Amiga and Workbench xD or whatever it was called.

Funny I have a few friends that are sorting as professionals in the VFX industry and not a single one of them complained about UI. UX - yes. UI - no. I agree that it’s outdated, but I’ll take innovation and stability over eye candy any time.

There are more modern and flatter UI themes out there. I was hoping SideFX would include one by default. They help to make UI look a bit more modern if that’s what you’re after.

Is it in particular a set of UI things that affect your User Experience that could help to narrow things down.. Personally I completely don’t care if the selection icons don’t match the rest :-)

LukeP
Funny I have a few friends that are sorting as professionals in the VFX industry and not a single one of them complained about UI. UX - yes. UI - no. I agree that it’s outdated, but I’ll take innovation and stability over eye candy any time.

There are more modern and flatter UI themes out there. I was hoping SideFX would include one by default. They help to make UI look a bit more modern if that’s what you’re after.

Is it in particular a set of UI things that affect your User Experience that could help to narrow things down.. Personally I completely don’t care if the selection icons don’t match the rest :-)

There are a lot, a lot of UI/UX complains on this forum already like this [www.sidefx.com]. There are litearlly hundreds of posts about it if you count replies (in every Houdini XX version prediction thread). But SideFX has already made it clear that this forum isn't a venue for the users to express their opinions [][]. So there is no point talking about these issues anymore.

oldteapot7
I dont gent why SideFX dont refreshu it? Rebranding and refreshing 15 yo UI produckt is a must.

In the past 2 years, every single time SideFX tried to improve the UI/UX, it has always been between "total disaster" to "3 steps forward, 2 step backwards". HUD sliders, hotkey system, recipe, new node info panel... every single one. The negligence of UX is just too deep in their culture. I'd rather SideFX to NOT refresh it until they find a proper UI/UX team and empower them. It's guaranteed to be disastrous if they try to overhaul it at this moment.


[]: https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/25347/ [www.sidefx.com]
[]: https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/97551/?page=2#post-428998 [www.sidefx.com]

raincole
But SideFX has already made it clear that this forum isn't a venue for the users to express their opinions

This is news to me. When and where did they say this?

eikonoklastes

raincole
But SideFX has already made it clear that this forum isn't a venue for the users to express their opinions

This is news to me. When and where did they say this?

In this post.
https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/97551/?page=2#post-428998 [www.sidefx.com]

alexwheezy

eikonoklastes

raincole
But SideFX has already made it clear that this forum isn't a venue for the users to express their opinions

This is news to me. When and where did they say this?

In this post.
https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/97551/?page=2#post-428998 [www.sidefx.com]

Where exactly in that post does it say that this forum isn't a venue for users to express their opinions?

eikonoklastes

alexwheezy

eikonoklastes

raincole
But SideFX has already made it clear that this forum isn't a venue for the users to express their opinions

This is news to me. When and where did they say this?

In this post.
https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/97551/?page=2#post-428998 [www.sidefx.com]

Where exactly in that post does it say that this forum isn't a venue for users to express their opinions?

They don't necessarily need to write about it. The thing is, constructive criticism of Houdini is not encouraged on this forum. As soon as discussions about the program's bugs and ways to improve it begin, the threads are closed with constant reminders to submit RFE. This way, users can't openly discuss these issues. This behavior has permeated the forum over the last few years.

alexeyvanzhula1984
They don't necessarily need to write about it. The thing is, constructive criticism of Houdini is not encouraged on this forum. As soon as discussions about the program's bugs and ways to improve it begin, the threads are closed with constant reminders to submit RFE. This way, users can't openly discuss these issues. This behavior has permeated the forum over the last few years.

I think, if you honestly look at the state of the threads that have been closed, they're in tatters. The original point would have been lost ages ago, and pretty much every second post there would be someone complaining about something with no particular direction.

I will quote from the thread that you guys are referencing:

raincole
Keep talking about them. SideFX is very responsive. You'll get a response eventually (which is usually a closed thread, but if you're lucky you might get a forum ban!)

Do you honestly believe this to be valuable, constructive discussion? Or is it just passive-aggressive negativity with no real purpose other than to air your frustration, which is a remarkable thing to be doing on a professional public forum.

I'm just going to say it - there is an extremely vocal minority in here that have been diluting these forums for a while now with their incessant bitching. Personally, I'm extremely glad SideFX are taking a harder stance with the quality of their forums.

Opinions can be aired with professionalism, and I can bet my house that SideFX will have zero issue with it. When those opinions are repeated in a thread and other posts ad nauseum without increasing the value of that thread, and, in fact, reversing it, then I'm fully behind them closing those threads.

eikonoklastes
Do you honestly believe this to be valuable, constructive discussion? Or is it just passive-aggressive negativity with no real purpose other than to air your frustration, which is a remarkable thing to be doing on a professional public forum.

Not quite agree. Here's an example https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/97567 [www.sidefx.com] Can you explain why this topic was closed?

This is a case where repeated RFEs don't help, and discussion is needed, which is what the forum is supposed to be for.

alexeyvanzhula1984
Here's an example https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/97567 [www.sidefx.com] Can you explain why this topic was closed?

Easy - It's just complaining. Nothing productive.

alexeyvanzhula1984
This is a case where repeated RFEs don't help, and discussion is needed, which is what the forum is supposed to be for.

Repeated RFE/But reports is the only way - a 'discussion' as you say which repeatedly is mostly just complaining doesn't do anything other than bloat the forum with just more complaining posts.

raincole

LukeP
Funny I have a few friends that are sorting as professionals in the VFX industry and not a single one of them complained about UI. UX - yes. UI - no. I agree that it’s outdated, but I’ll take innovation and stability over eye candy any time.

There are more modern and flatter UI themes out there. I was hoping SideFX would include one by default. They help to make UI look a bit more modern if that’s what you’re after.

Is it in particular a set of UI things that affect your User Experience that could help to narrow things down.. Personally I completely don’t care if the selection icons don’t match the rest :-)

There are a lot, a lot of UI/UX complains on this forum already like this [www.sidefx.com]. There are litearlly hundreds of posts about it if you count replies (in every Houdini XX version prediction thread). But SideFX has already made it clear that this forum isn't a venue for the users to express their opinions [][]. So there is no point talking about these issues anymore.

oldteapot7
I dont gent why SideFX dont refreshu it? Rebranding and refreshing 15 yo UI produckt is a must.

In the past 2 years, every single time SideFX tried to improve the UI/UX, it has always been between "total disaster" to "3 steps forward, 2 step backwards". HUD sliders, hotkey system, recipe, new node info panel... every single one. The negligence of UX is just too deep in their culture. I'd rather SideFX to NOT refresh it until they find a proper UI/UX team and empower them. It's guaranteed to be disastrous if they try to overhaul it at this moment.


[]: https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/25347/ [www.sidefx.com]
[]: https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/97551/?page=2#post-428998 [www.sidefx.com]

Weird… I think recipes and the new info panel are awesome… Yes some work left but step in the right direction. Especially with latest daily builds.

LukeP
Weird… I think recipes and the new info panel are awesome… Yes some work left but step in the right direction.

I agree. Also, the new hotkey system has been an amazing upgrade for someone like me, who uses a non-standard keyboard layout. Previously, I would need to tediously and manually set up my hotkeys one-by-one just to bring them back to parity with a standard QWERTY layout. Now, all I have to do is create my own custom keyboard map (which takes less than a minute), and the new hotkey system just adapts the entirety of Houdini to match it. It's like magic, and has been an amazing change for me and no doubt for everyone who uses non-standard keyboard layouts.

Yes, there were new bugs introduced with 20.5 because of even more foundational changes to the hotkey system, but most of these have already been resolved within a month.

For them to be using purposefully incendiary language like "total disaster" reeks of disingenuity and misplaced anger, and it's easy to see why SideFX would want to curb those tendencies on a forum designed for meaningful exchange.

but most of these have already been resolved within a month.

that's a strong exaggeration

alexeyvanzhula1984
that's a strong exaggeration

I genuinely hope you can see how throwaway remarks like these are exactly what we are talking about, and how they devalue discourse. What you said contributes nothing to the conversation, except to bloat the thread with white noise. If you actually have something of value to add, you should include that in your post, and if not, you should not post at all.

oldteapot7
Becouse this UI design is 15 years old and artist who usually have good taste and sense of easthetics avoid Houdini for any cost. Parameter pane menue is really hard to look at. UI with carve animations is a joke.

I dont gent why SideFX dont refreshu it? Rebranding and refreshing 15 yo UI produckt is a must.

I broadly agree, but not everything is about looks. Houdini UI has a lot of junk in it, multiple ways to do access the same menus or windows, lots of wasted space because it's pre-burger menus, etc. -- it's just outdated UI design. They have a lot of what in programming is called "technical debt", only applied to the UI. This workshop is in need of a professional cleaner and organizer.

But to be fair, compared to some other software, it's not that bad. Look at ZBrush for example, visually it looks better and slicker, and yet it's the worst UI design of all time.

Would much rather have them invest time in stability and finishing beta features. UI is decent in my opinion other than a bit of an outdated look. You can always get a flat UI theme. It’s the user experience / workflows, like naming of the parameters, and little small things that are piling up. The problem with any UI refresh is that some people will love it, some will hate it. Can’t make everyone happy.